X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3861740 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:47:06 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9810A173997 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:46:29 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id BB17CBEC005 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:46:28 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <7CBCECAFE3F546C8969C1ED9605EF557@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] "P" ports(was) Progress report from Houston Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:46:28 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA3B7A.5263EDD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090921-0, 09/21/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA3B7A.5263EDD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, There is little to weld to and less metal when cleaned up after welding = and the corner radiased - if I could suggest the method Richard Sohn = used, which I think is similar to the Powersport approach i.e. using a = flange - OR welding an AL tube to the inner coolant area. Tig welding on = both options is advisable. George ( down under) Mark, =20 I have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have been after I was = excommunicated)........Did=20 you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner (warpage,etc) = and how did you cleanup welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you = would care to share ?.........I have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" port = conversion............. Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle = : --------------=20 Kelly, Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing = plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant. I plan to pressure = test them prior to assembly. Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer = wrote: Mark, Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for = your 20B "P" port inserts ?? -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle = : --------------=20 Bill,=20 I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what I = reported earlier. I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they settle = down to 200 in cruise. Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the = earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system = is not cooling as well as it did earlier. I'm just glad that I = installed TES o-rings throughout. =20 My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that protruded into = the airstream about 1". This was a quick and dirty test to see the = result. I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time. I have = since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door so I can = open/close as desired. When closed it is the same as a stock cowl. = This is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during triple-digit = Texas summer months. I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall directly = above the cowl flap opening. This was done in the hope of helping coax = the heated air out of the cowl. But I didn't detect any great = improvement in cooling. Oh, well. Next thing I plan on adding is small = air dams on each end of the flap door. The idea here is to promote more = efficient airflow out of the cowl flap. I've heard that these make a = big difference. We'll see. =20 If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to = consider locating it on the side, or possibly install one on each side, = back near the firewall. This would allow you to make the opening = larger, and this location may be in a lower pressure area than the = bottom, especially during climbout. Just a thought. Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will be = worse with the new P-port 20B engine. So, I may be forced to make some = major changes to get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be forced = to throttle back during climbout. I've been considering relocating the = radiator from under the engine to the cool side of the engine = (fore/aft). This would allow me to use a slightly larger radiator. It = would clean up the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines = too. =20 No, I haven't experienced SAG. But then I'm running Renesis = type irridium spark plugs. I'm at 143 hours now. Personally, I won't = use anything else. =20 Mark ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CA3B7A.5263EDD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
 Kelly,
There is little to weld to and less = metal when=20 cleaned up after welding and the corner radiased - if I could = suggest the=20 method Richard Sohn used, which I think is similar to the Powersport = approach=20 i.e. using a flange - OR welding an AL tube to the inner coolant = area. Tig=20 welding on both options is advisable.
George ( down under)
Mark,
I have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have been = after I=20 was excommunicated)........Did
you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner = (warpage,etc) and=20 how did you cleanup
welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you = would=20 care to share ?.........I
have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" port=20 conversion.............
 
Thanks,
 
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>:=20 --------------

Kelly,
 
Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's = sealing=20 plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant.  I plan=20 to pressure test them prior to assembly.
 
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly = Troyer <keltro@att.net>=20 wrote:
Mark,
  Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing = method=20 for your 20B "P" port inserts ??
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
--------------=20 Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>: -------------- =

Bill,
 
I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from = what I=20 reported earlier.  I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, = then they=20 settle down to 200 in cruise.  Maybe I'm producing more hp = now, or=20 maybe the earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or = possibly=20 my system is not cooling as well as it did earlier.  I'm = just glad=20 that I installed TES o-rings throughout. 
My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, = that protruded=20 into the airstream about 1".  This was a quick and = dirty test=20 to see the result.  I couldn't open or close it, it = was open=20 all the time.  I have since replaced the 1" lip with a=20 servo-controlled door so I can open/close as desired.  = When=20 closed it is the same as a stock cowl.  This is very = helpful in=20 cooler climates, not so much during triple-digit Texas summer=20 months.
 
I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall = directly=20 above the cowl flap opening.  This was done in the=20 hope of helping coax the heated air out of the=20 cowl.  But I didn't detect any great improvement in = cooling. =20 Oh, well.  Next thing I plan on adding is small air = dams on=20 each end of the flap door.  The idea here is to promote = more=20 efficient airflow out of the cowl flap.  I've heard that = these make=20 a big difference.  We'll see.  =20
 
If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want = to=20 consider locating it on the side, or possibly install = one=20 on each side, back near the firewall.  This would = allow you to=20 make the opening larger, and this=20 location may be in a lower pressure area = than the=20 bottom, especially during climbout.  Just a thought.
 
Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, = and it will=20 be worse with the new P-port 20B engine.  So, I may be = forced=20 to make some major changes to get the more powerful engine = to cool,=20 or else be forced to throttle back during climbout.  = I've been=20 considering relocating the radiator from under the engine=20 to the cool side of the engine (fore/aft).  This would = allow=20 me to use a slightly larger radiator.  It would clean up = the=20 plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines=20 too.   
No, I haven't experienced SAG.  But then I'm running = Renesis=20 type irridium spark plugs.  I'm at 143 hours now.  = Personally,=20 I won't use anything else. 
 
Mark
=
 

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