X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3861530 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:12:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.55; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1253574777; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=XjifNa nVsErU/A5kmk99QL4RYLfONLD9YRM4C1eSl/g=; b=lR4/V2jUs12zSe2PBlZbryUO4 sjm5qohQBwA6jytlStnIkqx/WFAhQAQJuu0X25O4w3jRkSRzIILEDJwndCZdg== Received: from fwebmail33.isp.att.net ([204.127.221.133]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20090921231221H05003ebf6e>; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:12:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.221.133] Received: from [208.114.37.249] by fwebmail33.isp.att.net; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:12:21 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: "P" ports(was) Progress report from Houston Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:12:21 +0000 Message-Id: <092120092312.17214.4AB80852000A89090000433E22243323629B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17214_1253574741_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17214_1253574741_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mark, I have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have been after I was excommunicated)........Did you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner (warpage,etc) and how did you cleanup welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you would care to share ?.........I have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" port conversion............. Thanks, -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : -------------- Kelly, Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant. I plan to pressure test them prior to assembly. Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Mark, Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for your 20B "P" port inserts ?? -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : -------------- Bill, I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what I reported earlier. I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they settle down to 200 in cruise. Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system is not cooling as well as it did earlier. I'm just glad that I installed TES o-rings throughout. My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that protruded into the airstream about 1". This was a quick and dirty test to see the result. I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time. I have since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door so I can open/close as desired. When closed it is the same as a stock cowl. This is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during triple-digit Texas summer months. I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall directly above the cowl flap opening. This was done in the hope of helping coax the heated air out of the cowl. But I didn't detect any great improvement in cooling. Oh, well. Next thing I plan on adding is small air dams on each end of the flap door. The idea here is to promote more efficient airflow out of the cowl flap. I've heard that these make a big difference. We'll see. If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to consider locating it on the side, or possibly install one on each side, back near the firewall. This would allow you to make the opening larger, and this location may be in a lower pressure area than the bottom, especially during climbout. Just a thought. Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will be worse with the new P-port 20B engine. So, I may be forced to make some major changes to get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be forced to throttle back during climbout. I've been considering relocating the radiator from under the engine to the cool side of the engine (fore/aft). This would allow me to use a slightly larger radiator. It would clean up the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines too. No, I haven't experienced SAG. But then I'm running Renesis type irridium spark plugs. I'm at 143 hours now. Personally, I won't use anything else. Mark --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17214_1253574741_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17214_1253574741_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_17214_1253574741_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
 
I have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have been after I= was excommunicated)........Did
you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner (warpage,etc) an= d how did you cleanup
welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you woul= d care to share ?.........I
have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" port conversion.....= ........
 
Thanks,
 
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/E= C2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold



 
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteit= le@gmail.com>: --------------

Kelly,
 
Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing plat= es and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant.  I plan to pressur= e test them prior to assembly.
 
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
  Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for= your 20B "P" port inserts ??
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/E= C2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>:= --------------

Bill,
 
I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what I repor= ted earlier.  I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they settle do= wn to 200 in cruise.  Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the ea= rlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system is no= t cooling as well as it did earlier.  I'm just glad that I instal= led TES o-rings throughout. 
My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that protruded into t= he airstream about 1".  This was a quick and dirty test to see th= e result.  I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time.=   I have since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door s= o I can open/close as desired.  When closed it is the same as a stock = cowl.  This is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during tri= ple-digit Texas summer months.
 
I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall directly above = the cowl flap opening.  This was done in the hope of helping= coax the heated air out of the cowl.  But I didn't detect a= ny great improvement in cooling.  Oh, well.  Next thing I pl= an on adding is small air dams on each end of the flap door.  The idea= here is to promote more efficient airflow out of the cowl flap.  I've= heard that these make a big difference.  We'll see.  =20
 
If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to conside= r locating it on the side, or possibly install one on each s= ide, back near the firewall.  This would allow you to make the op= ening larger, and this location may be in a lower press= ure area than the bottom, especially during climbout.  Just a tho= ught.
 
Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will be = worse with the new P-port 20B engine.  So, I may be forced to mak= e some major changes to get the more powerful engine to cool, or else = be forced to throttle back during climbout.  I've been considerin= g relocating the radiator from under the engine to the cool side = of the engine (fore/aft).  This would allow me to use a slightly large= r radiator.  It would clean up the plumbing and significantly shorten = the cooling lines too.   
No, I haven't experienced SAG.  But then I'm running Renesis type= irridium spark plugs.  I'm at 143 hours now.  Personally, I won'= t use anything else. 
 
Mark
 

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