X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f177.google.com ([209.85.221.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3836434 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:20:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.177; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk7 with SMTP id 7so549212qyk.8 for ; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:19:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QSXJtU/K+Ny7tjd4Uk5wMUjhSAtbWd7dXROB8Za1LkY=; b=ReHwwtEk3yCfIienNFgIOXUy3Hpp8iBDZHmfTnnsaV9BndnY+BQljlvj6yVO2QoaIR mAbX2UFUa50zqBp0FlkN6KREXwjIMJc28r94H4/FBs+agUhQDv8VuW7MjsbZ3YLC02+x Sy8M2YD0DsslK9c4bTw6r70dROdbWcftIPhrg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=lRSWBgnfihu4p4h5AOvia/Dm0Qy6lrWK3gnjLV7sz7oHDHQ4EeSMB9cDFCeF/hDcSn LHnrC4dKqbEjaWXWeCCXzUGS9Gd2TAncPu3EuXnIg1d12sEJMFllOxkgRxdDN72rFKj8 qL6k7UP2KxtISE60vICmqYJrCpJf7Kah2lQcM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.43.139 with SMTP id w11mr7451868qae.28.1252077576289; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:19:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:19:36 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e40b707924edbc58 Message-ID: <1b4b137c0909040819w3a69c5eue3fbbd02d2d0d2c9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f9b07632b8a3c0472c2078f --00c09f9b07632b8a3c0472c2078f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I could be wrong, but the newer and better the rotor oil control rings are, the more oil is recovered from the sidewalls when using 2 stroke in the fuel. A worn engine would probably leave more oil in the chamber to be burned thus eliminating the oil buildup in the pan. Tracy On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Yvon Cournoyer wrote: > *New (overhauled) engine purchased from a Mazda dealer. Air time 95 hrs. > Ground time about half as much. I fly a 2.105:1 cogbelt PSRU. My aircraft is > a Zenair Zenith. Yvon* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:16 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade > > Yvon, > Was your 13B freshly overhauled when you began flying and how many hours > in > the air currently..............Condition of the rotor side seals and their > "O" rings plus > side plate wear steps are the main controlling factors + the percentage of > 2 stroke > oil............As the engine rotor side seals, "O" rings and side plates > wear then more > of the 2 stroke oil will get past them and into the oil sump........... > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > > > > -------------- Original message from Yvon Cournoyer : > -------------- > > *I have been using a ratio of 1:140 for some time and still getting an > increase in the oil pan. I do not run above 5500-5600 engine rpm. My engine > is a 1986 13B. Yvon.* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tracy Crook > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:04 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade > > Just talked to John again. Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel filters > (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?). Saw > fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started > falling. After landing, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them > out. That procedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks. > After cleaning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, > hence the failure to start. He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was > super low and that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. > After opening them, the engine started immediately. > > The RPM anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that was > back to normal. I'm sure we will hear more later. I'm kind of amazed that > the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of fuel with no oil > added was used. > > Just random thoughts: I'm thinking I should cut back on the amount of oil > I add. I'm still accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz > per gallon of gas. Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis. Peripheral > exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably > overkill. > > Tracy > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard wrote: > >> So what caused the evergency landing? >> >> Dave Leonard >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: >> >>> Called John to see if I could help. What a saga! Lots of indications >>> that it is clogged fuel system somewhere but also some symptoms that >>> occurred simultaneously that make no sense at all (like a double rpm >>> indication). John says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel >>> stops with no oil added to gas (forgot). Engine was running normal at >>> shutdown after emergency landing but now won't start. Unfortunately John >>> has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics and >>> has not tried checking for spark while cranking since that is a 2 man job. >>> I forgot to ask if he had tried the backup on EC2 controller but I assume he >>> did. >>> >>> Tracy >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev < >>> bulent@enginegearonline.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Guys, I just got a call from John Slade. He had to do an emergency >>>> landing in Graystone *17FL *(Ocala) FL. His engine will not start >>>> again, and he needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is >>>> 860-271-3941. Please give him a call if you can help in any way. >>>> Buly >>>> Bulent Aliev >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> > > --00c09f9b07632b8a3c0472c2078f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I could be wrong, but the newer and better the rotor oil control rings are,= the more oil is recovered from the sidewalls when using 2 stroke in the fu= el.=A0 A worn engine would probably leave more oil in the chamber to be bur= ned thus eliminating the oil buildup in the pan.

Tracy

On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:12 AM= , Yvon Cournoyer <geryvon@videotron.ca> wrote:
New (overhauled) engine purchased f= rom a=20 Mazda dealer. Air time 95 hrs. Ground time about half as much. I fly a 2.10= 5:1=20 cogbelt PSRU. My aircraft is a Zenair Zenith. Yvon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly Troyer
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009= 3:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for = John=20 Slade

Yvon,
=A0 Was your 13B freshly overhauled when you began flying and how ma= ny=20 hours in
the air currently..............Condition of the rotor side seals and= =20 their "O" rings plus
side plate wear steps are the main controlling factors + the percent= age=20 of 2 stroke
oil............As the engine rotor side seals, "O" rings a= nd side plates=20 wear then more
of the 2 stroke oil will get past them and into the oil=20 sump...........
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Ba= ckplate/Oil Manifold=20



=A0
--------------=20 Original message from Yvon Cournoyer <geryvon@videotron.ca>:=20 --------------

=20 =20
I have been using a ratio of 1:= 140 for=20 some time and still getting an increase in the oil pan. I do not run ab= ove=20 5500-5600 engine rpm. My engine is a 1986 13B. Yvon.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy Crook
Sent: Wednesday, September 02,= 2009=20 10:04 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help = for=20 John Slade

Just talked to John again.=A0 Engine emergency caused = by=20 clogged fuel filters (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank = work=20 of some sort?). =A0 Saw fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increas= ed=20 EGTs then rpm started falling. =A0 After landing, John found the=20 clogged filters & cleaned them out.=A0 That procedure called for= =20 closing a shutoff valve from the tanks.=A0 After cleaning the filters= ,=20 he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, hence the failure to=20 start.=A0 He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was super low and= =20 that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. =A0=A0=20 After opening them, the engine started immediately.=A0

The RP= M=20 anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if tha= t was=20 back to normal.=A0 I'm sure we will hear more later.=A0 I'm k= ind of=20 amazed that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of= fuel=20 with no oil added was used.

Just random thoughts: =A0 I'm= =20 thinking I should cut back on the amount of oil I add.=A0 I'm sti= ll=20 accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz per gallon o= f=20 gas.=A0 Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis.=A0 Peripheral= =20 exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably= =20 overkill.

Tracy


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leon= ard <wdleonard@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
So what cau= sed the evergency landing?

Dave=20 Leonard=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Cr= ook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
Called Jo= hn to see if I could help.=A0 What a=20 saga! =A0=A0 Lots of indications that it is clogged fuel system= =20 somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred simultaneously tha= t=20 make no sense at all (like a double rpm indication).=A0=A0 John= =20 says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops with n= o oil=20 added to gas (forgot).=A0 Engine was running normal at shutdown= =20 after emergency landing but now won't start.=A0 Unfortunately= John=20 has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector=20 diagnostics and has not tried checking for spark while cranking s= ince=20 that is a 2 man job.=A0=A0 I forgot to ask if he had tried the=20 backup on EC2 controller but I assume he did.=A0

Tracy=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent= Aliev=20 <bulent@enginegearonline.com> wrote:
Guys, I= just got a call from John Slade. He had to=20 do an emergency landing in Graystone 17FL=20 (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, = and=20 he needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # i= s=20 860-271-3941. Please give him a call if you can help in any=20 way.
Buly
Bulent=20 Aliev





--=
David=20 Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


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