X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3790614 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:30:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090731173011260.KYUY557@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:30:11 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:30:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA11E3.0772C190" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcoRgPLFREzvsaPhTwqZL/lRtg676gAgjd9g In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090731173011260.KYUY557@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA11E3.0772C190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, if you have a 20B I would be very hesitant to use a Ross Redrive = (in fact I would NOT). =20 I had a Ross unit and flew for about 160 hours before I switched over to = RWS gearbox. The problem was when I increased the power of my engine from around 140-150 to around 170 - 180 HP, I found the sun gear gauling. = The Ross is know to have marginal lubrication, no thrust bearing (so your = engine thrust bearing is force to carry the load =96 which it several times = what it was designed to carry) and the rear seal can be a persistent source of = oil leak. There have been some that have lasted much longer and some which = have lasted less than 100 hours. If I had a 120-140 HP project it might be = worth try, but with a 20B, I personally think you would be wasting time and = money trying to use a Ross drive. Some folks have had them modified to put in = a thrust bearing, but that is just throwing good money after more good = money. A good thing to do IF you insist on using a Ross, but personally I would = get RWS C drive and go with that. =20 But, that is just my personal opinion based on experience with one Ross drive and what I have heard about them over the years. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Parkins Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:47 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 looking for a used redrive or one that can be fixed or rebuilt ???? any = one ?? new one 90days same as cash ?=20 steve parkins =20 =20 _____ =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: btilley@mchsi.com Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:06 +0000 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Steve, =20 Bob Tilley here. I agree with Ed. I built my engine on our temp = firewall mounted in the back of my pickup truck. This way I could "see" how everything was going to look. It helped a little. I still need to redo = some of the item I spent a lot of time on now that the engine is on the = plane. As far as an intake, You will need to build your own! there are no working = off the shelf parts. Bring the runners out of the block into a plenum and = attach the throttle body as close as possible. You can get more power with a = really good manifold, but it will cost a lot of money and time to make. Your = 20b is enough for any Cozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not worth the effort!!!!!!! = been there, done that. =20 Bob =20 -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : --------------=20 Steve, I would buy a PSRU next =96 then with the motor mount, the = engine and the PSRU you have the length of your cowl and most of the space laid out under cowl =96 well, a lot of it any way. Then you can start making = decisions about what else will now fit =96 like radiators, oil cooler etc. I = don=92t think you can effectively plan for the other stuff under the cowl until = you have those three major components in place. =20 =20 Just my 0.02 worth =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Parkins Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 just crawling here, would like to walk. sorry for the dumb questions in advance ! i have a fw,mount,old 20b,intake. what would you buy next ?=20 i kinda work with 500 a month but have 1000 to spend a month ,so you can = see my dilemma. =20 steve parkins =20 _____ =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: lendich@aanet.com.au Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Ed, Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or do you have to have = the electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc. George (down under) =20 Thanks for the kind words about the EFISM, Jeff. I think most folks = will find that being able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much easier to understand what your engine is doing and how well your MAP is adjusted =96 the only two units offered that are capable of doing this = (that I am aware of) Is Tracy=92s RWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM. Either one will = provide this capability.=20 =20 You can certainly tune and fly safely without either of these units to monitor/adjust your MAP =96 I did it for years. However, I never could eliminate my staging bog (for example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicator and the fuel MAP as the engine operating point approached the staging point. For whatever the reason, my A/F ratio would take a nose dive toward the lean side just before staging =96 causing a temporary = (but annoying) hesitation or bog. Using the graphical display I began = increasing the richness of each bin as the A/F indicated lean and advance bin by = bin making this adjustment until after increasing 4-6 bins just before the staging point, my staging bog has completely disappeared. =20 It is also difficult (at least for me) to try to tune the EC2 by = advancing the manifold pressure =BD=94 Hg at a time to activate each bin. I also = found (using the EFISM), that when I adjusted the value of the bin my engine = was operating on =96 that change (rich or lean) invariably cause the engine = to change operating conditions =96 just enough so that it would shift to = the adjacent bin or two =96 so I was no longer tuning the same bin as a = moment before. I know some can do it by hear =96 Tracy for example =96 but, = for me visual was much easier to do. =20 In any case whether Tracy=92s EM2/3 or my EFISM =96 I think most will = find a graphical representation easier to work with. =20 Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 The following is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago: =20 =93Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an EM2/3 = or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and = had a couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine running smoother than it ever = has and now have it is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. That=92s 300 RPM lower = than I was ever able to get it previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to = have some sort of indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to = effectively tune it.=94 =20 I whole-heartedly agree!! I installed ED=92s EFISM last night and was = anxious to see my MCT =96 let=92s just say it was a mess. There were a few = points, mostly around the staging area, where I could see that some tuning had = taken place; however, there were several locations with wild swings from one = bin to the next. These wild variations appeared in the middle of the high = rpm band where the engine has spent very little time, as I=92m usually near = idle or WOT =96 but man it sure is nice to actually see what=92s going on. Jeff __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com =20 =20 _____ =20 NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com =20 =20 _____ =20 NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01CA11E3.0772C190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve, if you have a 20B I would be = very hesitant to use a Ross Redrive (in fact I would = NOT).

 

I had a Ross unit and flew for = about 160 hours before I switched over to RWS gearbox.=A0 The problem was when I = increased the power of my engine from around 140-150=A0 to around 170=A0 - 180 HP, = I found the sun gear gauling.=A0 The Ross is know to have marginal lubrication, = no thrust bearing (so your engine thrust bearing is force to carry the load = – which it several times what it was designed to carry) and the rear seal can be a = persistent source of oil leak.=A0 There have been some that have lasted much longer = and some which have lasted less than 100 hours.=A0 If I had a 120-140 HP project = it might be worth try, but with a 20B, I personally think you would be wasting = time and money trying to use a Ross drive.=A0 Some folks have had them modified = to put in a thrust bearing, but that is just throwing good money after more good = money. A good thing to do IF you insist on using a Ross, but personally I would = get RWS C drive and go with that.

 

But, that is just my personal = opinion based on experience with one Ross drive and what I have heard about them = over the years.

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve = Parkins
Sent: Thursday, July 30, = 2009 9:47 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination

 


looking for a used redrive or one that can be fixed or rebuilt ???? any = one ??
new one 90days same as cash ?

steve = parkins<= /p>




 

 

To: = flyrotary@lancaironline.net
From: btilley@mchsi.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:06 +0000
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great = combination

Steve,

 

 Bob Tilley here. I agree with Ed. I built my = engine on our temp firewall mounted in the back of my pickup truck. This way I = could "see" how everything was going to look. It helped a little. I = still need to redo some of the item I spent a lot of time on now that the = engine is on the plane. As far as an intake, You will need to build your = own!  there are no working off the shelf parts. Bring the runners out of = the block into a plenum and attach the throttle body as close as possible. = You can get more power with a really good manifold, but it will cost a lot of = money and time to make. Your 20b is enough for any Cozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not = worth the effort!!!!!!!  been there, done = that.

 

Bob

 

-------------- Original = message from "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>: = --------------

Steve,  I would buy a PSRU = next – then with the motor mount, the engine and the PSRU you have the length = of your cowl and most of the space laid out under cowl – well, a lot of it = any way.  Then you can start making decisions about what else will now = fit – like radiators, oil cooler etc.  I don’t think you can = effectively plan for the other stuff under the cowl until you have those three major = components in place. 

 <= /p>

Just my 0.02 = worth<= /p>

 <= /p>

Ed<= /p>

 <= /p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Parkins
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, = 2009 6:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination<= /p>

 

just crawling here, would like to walk.
sorry for the dumb questions in advance !
i have a fw,mount,old 20b,intake.
what would you buy next ?

i kinda work with 500 a month but have 1000 to spend a month ,so you can = see my dilemma.

 

steve = parkins<= /p>




 

To: = flyrotary@lancaironline.net
From: lendich@aanet.com.au
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great = combination

Ed,<= /p>

Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or = do you have to have the electronics of the EC2 and sensors = etc.<= /p>

George (down under)<= /p>

 

Thanks for the kind words about the = EFISM, Jeff.  I think most folks will find that being able to graphically = see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much easier to understand what your engine is = doing and how well your MAP is adjusted  – the only two units offered =  that are capable of doing this (that I am aware of)<= /p>

Is Tracy’s RWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM.  Either one will provide = this capability.

 <= /p>

You can certainly tune and fly = safely without either of these units to monitor/adjust your MAP – I did = it for years.  However, I never could eliminate my staging bog (for = example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicator and the fuel MAP as the = engine operating point approached the staging point.  For whatever the = reason, my A/F ratio  would take a nose dive toward the lean side just before = staging – causing a temporary (but annoying) hesitation or bog.  = Using the graphical display I began increasing the richness of each bin as the A/F indicated = lean and  advance bin by bin making this adjustment until after = increasing 4-6 bins just before the staging point, my staging bog has completely = disappeared.<= /p>

 <= /p>

It is also difficult (at least for = me) to try to tune the EC2 by advancing the manifold pressure =BD” Hg =  at a time to activate each bin.  I also found (using the EFISM), that when I = adjusted the value of the bin my engine was operating on – that change = (rich or lean) invariably cause the engine to change operating conditions – just = enough so that it would shift to the adjacent bin or two – so I was no = longer tuning the same bin as a moment before.  I know some can do it by hear – = Tracy for = example – but, for me visual was much easier to do.<= /p>

 <= /p>

In any case whether Tracy’s EM2/3 or my EFISM = – I think most will find a graphical representation easier to work with.<= /p>

 <= /p>

Ed<= /p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, = 2009 9:05 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 = and Ed's EFISM - a great combination<= /p>

 <= /p>

The following = is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago:<= /p>

 <= /p>

“Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an = EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the better part = of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On my = first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had a = couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. = In the process I got the engine running smoother than it ever has and now have = it is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. That’s 300 RPM lower than I was ever = able to get it previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to have some sort of = indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune = it.”<= /p>

 <= /p>

I = whole-heartedly agree!! I installed ED’s EFISM last night and was anxious to see = my MCT – let’s just say it was a mess. There were a few points, mostly around the = staging area, where I could see that some tuning had taken place; however, there = were several locations with wild swings from one bin to the next. These wild variations appeared in the middle of the high rpm band where the engine = has spent very little time, as I’m usually near idle or WOT – = but man it sure is nice to actually see what’s going on.<= /p>

Jeff<= /p>



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com<= /p>

 

NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

 

NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

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