X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from sccmmhc91.asp.att.net ([204.127.203.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3785976 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:53:52 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.203.211; envelope-from=btilley@mchsi.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=mchsi.com; s=dkim01; i=btilley@mchsi.com; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1248954832; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id: Date:Subject:To:From; bh=LGtGz4zyYgExS96KSyWcY1YdCrq56xLF1qzpdvDF65 4=; b=GZxRD7GidcgYTgdvLOtcgefY/WgcrutaxhNazEagJfGYwrBcb4yLEBB5mdoyG 5AyZLmzw6LOZ7gbbbVXKDHh7Q== Received: from sccqwbc18 (scommcenter18.asp.att.net[204.127.203.180]) by mchsi.com (sccmmhc91) with SMTP id <20090730115306m9100i79mve>; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:16 +0000 Received: from [99.156.212.13] by sccqwbc18; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:06 +0000 From: btilley@mchsi.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:53:06 +0000 Message-Id: <073020091153.5989.4A7189970000903F00001765223045151403010CD2079C080C03BF970A0404079B0D@mchsi.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: YnRpbGxleUBtY2hzaS5jb20= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5989_1248954786_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5989_1248954786_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Steve, =C2=A0Bob Tilley here. I agree with Ed. I built my engine on our temp firew= all mounted in the back of my pickup truck. This way I could "see" how ever= ything was going to look. It helped a little. I still need to redo some of = the item I spent a lot of time on now that the engine is on the plane.=C2= =A0As far as an intake,=C2=A0You will need to build your own! =C2=A0there a= re no working off the shelf parts. Bring the runners out of the block into = a plenum and attach the throttle body as close as possible. You can get mor= e power with a really good manifold, but it will cost a lot of money and ti= me to make. Your 20b is enough for any Cozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not worth= the effort!!!!!!! =C2=A0been there, done that. Bob -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : -------------- Steve,=C2=A0 I would buy a PSRU next =E2=80=93 then withthe motor mount, th= e engine and the PSRU you have the length of your cowl andmost of the space= laid out under cowl =E2=80=93 well, a lot of it any way.=C2=A0 Then youcan= start making decisions about what else will now fit =E2=80=93 like radiato= rs, oilcooler etc.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think you can effectively plan for= the other stuff underthe cowl until you have those three major components = in place.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Just my 0.02 worth =C2=A0 Ed =C2=A0 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of Steve Parkins Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 20096:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 andEd's EFISM - a great combination =C2=A0 just crawling here, would like to walk. sorry for the dumb questions in advance ! i have a fw,mount,old 20b,intake. what would you buy next ?=20 i kinda work with 500 a month but have 1000 to spend a month ,so you can se= e mydilemma. =C2=A0 steve parkins =C2=A0=20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: lendich@aanet.com.au Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Ed, Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or do youhave to have the= electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc. George (down under) =C2=A0 Thanks for the kind words about the EFISM,Jeff.=C2=A0 I think most folks wi= ll find that being able to graphically seetheir fuel MAP/MCT makes it much = easier to understand what your engine is doingand how well your MAP is adju= sted =C2=A0=E2=80=93 the only two units offered =C2=A0thatare capable of do= ing this (that I am aware of) Is Tracy=E2=80=99sRWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM.=C2=A0 Either one= will provide thiscapability.=20 =C2=A0 You can certainly tune and fly safelywithout either of these units to monit= or/adjust your MAP =E2=80=93 I did it foryears.=C2=A0 However, I never coul= d eliminate my staging bog (for example)until I watch the air/fuel ratio in= dicator and the fuel MAP as the engineoperating point approached the stagin= g point.=C2=A0 For whatever the reason, myA/F ratio =C2=A0would take a nose= dive toward the lean side just before staging=E2=80=93 causing a temporary= (but annoying) hesitation or bog.=C2=A0 Using thegraphical display I began= increasing the richness of each bin as the A/Findicated lean and =C2=A0adv= ance bin by bin making this adjustment until afterincreasing 4-6 bins just = before the staging point, my staging bog hascompletely disappeared. =C2=A0 It is also difficult (at least for me) totry to tune the EC2 by advancing t= he manifold pressure =C2=BD=E2=80=9D Hg =C2=A0at a time toactivate each bin= .=C2=A0 I also found (using the EFISM), that when I adjustedthe value of th= e bin my engine was operating on =E2=80=93 that change (rich or lean)invari= ably cause the engine to change operating conditions =E2=80=93 just enough = sothat it would shift to the adjacent bin or two =E2=80=93 so I was no long= er tuning thesame bin as a moment before.=C2=A0 I know some can do it by he= ar =E2=80=93 Tracy for example =E2=80=93 but,for me visual was much easier = to do. =C2=A0 In any case whether Tracy=E2=80=99s EM2/3 or my EFISM =E2=80=93 I think mos= t willfind a graphical representation easier to work with. =C2=A0 Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW RotaryPowered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 20099:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and Ed'sEFISM - a great combination =C2=A0 The following is anexcerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago: =C2=A0 =E2=80=9CAnyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an EM2/= 3 orEd Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the better part = of ayear tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On m= y firstflight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had = a couple ofrough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days twe= aking. In theprocess I got the engine running smoother than it ever has and= now have it isidling nicely at 1350 RPM. That=E2=80=99s 300 RPM lower than= I was ever able to get itpreviously. In my opinion you really=C2=A0HAVE to= have some sort of indicationof what is loaded in the MAP table to effectiv= ely tune it.=E2=80=9D =C2=A0 I whole-heartedlyagree!! I installed ED=E2=80=99s EFISM last night and was = anxious to see my MCT =E2=80=93 let=E2=80=99sjust say it was a mess. There = were a few points, mostly around the stagingarea, where I could see that so= me tuning had taken place; however, there wereseveral locations with wild s= wings from one bin to the next. These wildvariations appeared in the middle= of the high rpm band where the engine hasspent very little time, as I=E2= =80=99m usually near idle or WOT =E2=80=93 but man it sure isnice to actual= ly see what=E2=80=99s going on. Jeff __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= edatabase 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com =C2=A0 NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= edatabase 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5989_1248954786_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5989_1248954786_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_5989_1248954786_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20
Steve,

=C2=A0Bob Tilley here. I agree with Ed= . I built my engine on our temp firewall mounted in the back of my pickup t= ruck. This way I could "see" how everything was going to look. It helped a = little. I still need to redo some of the item I spent a lot of time on now = that the engine is on the plane.=C2=A0As far as an intake,=C2=A0You will ne= ed to build your own! =C2=A0there are no working off the shelf parts. Bring= the runners out of the block into a plenum and attach the throttle body as= close as possible. You can get more power with a really good manifold, but= it will cost a lot of money and time to make. Your 20b is enough for any C= ozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not worth the effort!!!!!!! =C2=A0been there, don= e that.

Bob

-------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.= rr.com>: --------------

Steve,=C2=A0 I would buy a PSRU next = =E2=80=93 then with the motor mount, the engine and the PSRU you have the length of your cowl a= nd most of the space laid out under cowl =E2=80=93 well, a lot of it any way.= =C2=A0 Then you can start making decisions about what else will now fit =E2=80=93 like radi= ators, oil cooler etc.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think you can effectively plan for the ot= her stuff under the cowl until you have those three major components in place.=C2=A0 <= /o:p>

=C2=A0

Just my 0.02 worth

=C2=A0

Ed

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Parkins
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 20= 09 6:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2= and Ed's EFISM - a great combination

=C2=A0

just crawling here, would like to walk.
sorry for the dumb questions in advance !
i have a fw,mount,old 20b,intake.
what would you buy next ?

i kinda work with 500 a month but have 1000 to spend a month ,so you can se= e my dilemma.

=C2=A0

= steve pa= rkins




=C2=A0

To: flyro= tary@lancaironline.net
From: lendich@aanet.com.au
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination

Ed,

Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or do = you have to have the electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc.

George (down under)

=C2=A0

Thanks for the kind words about the EF= ISM, Jeff.=C2=A0 I think most folks will find that being able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much easier to understand what your engine is d= oing and how well your MAP is adjusted =C2=A0=E2=80=93 the only two units offere= d =C2=A0that are capable of doing this (that I am aware of)

Is Tracy=E2=80=99s RWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM.=C2=A0 Either one will provide this capability.

=C2=A0<= /o:p>

You can certainly tune and fly safely without either of these units to monitor/adjust your MAP =E2=80=93 I did it= for years.=C2=A0 However, I never could eliminate my staging bog (for example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicator and the fuel MAP as the engine operating point approached the staging point.=C2=A0 For whatever the reason= , my A/F ratio =C2=A0would take a nose dive toward the lean side just before sta= ging =E2=80=93 causing a temporary (but annoying) hesitation or bog.=C2=A0 Using= the graphical display I began increasing the richness of each bin as the A/F indicated lean and =C2=A0advance bin by bin making this adjustment until af= ter increasing 4-6 bins just before the staging point, my staging bog has completely disappeared.<= /p>

=C2=A0<= /o:p>

It is also difficult (at least for me)= to try to tune the EC2 by advancing the manifold pressure =C2=BD=E2=80=9D Hg = =C2=A0at a time to activate each bin.=C2=A0 I also found (using the EFISM), that when I adjust= ed the value of the bin my engine was operating on =E2=80=93 that change (rich= or lean) invariably cause the engine to change operating conditions =E2=80=93 just e= nough so that it would shift to the adjacent bin or two =E2=80=93 so I was no longer= tuning the same bin as a moment before.=C2=A0 I know some can do it by hear =E2=80=93 = Tracy f= or example =E2=80=93 but, for me visual was much easier to do.

=C2=A0<= /o:p>

In any case whether Tracy=E2=80=99s EM2/3 or = my EFISM =E2=80=93 I think most will find a graphical representation easier to work with.

=C2=A0<= /o:p>

Ed

Ed And= erson
Rv-6A N494BW Ro= tary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carol= ina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com<= br> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/= configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm<= a href=3D"http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html">

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 20= 09 9:05 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and= Ed's EFISM - a great combination=

=C2=A0=

The followin= g is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CAnyone trying to tune up = Tracy's EC2 without either ha= ving an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On my fi= rst flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had a coupl= e of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In t= he process I got the engine running smoother than it ever has and now have it = is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. That=E2=80=99s 300 RPM lower than I was ever abl= e to get it previously. In my opinion you really=C2=A0HAVE to have some sort of indicat= ion of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune it.=E2=80=9D<= /font>

=C2=A0

I whole-hear= tedly agree!! I installed ED=E2=80=99s EFISM last night and was anxious to see my= MCT =E2=80=93 let=E2=80=99s just say it was a mess. There were a few points, mostly around the staging area, where I could see that some tuning had taken place; however, there we= re several locations with wild swings from one bin to the next. These wild variations appeared in the middle of the high rpm band where the engine has spent very little time, as I=E2=80=99m usually near idle or WOT =E2=80=93 b= ut man it sure is nice to actually see what=E2=80=99s going on.

Jeff<= /font>



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

=C2=A0

NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.

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