X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3785379 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:11:35 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4BD173570 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:10:54 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B294BEC02B for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:10:52 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <21867CC9FB4A474E9A7FD03CBB5878EA@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA10E4.E2F38B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090729-0, 07/29/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA10E4.E2F38B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or do you have to have = the electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc. George (down under) Thanks for the kind words about the EFISM, Jeff. I think most folks = will find that being able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it = much easier to understand what your engine is doing and how well your = MAP is adjusted - the only two units offered that are capable of doing = this (that I am aware of) Is Tracy's RWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM. Either one will = provide this capability.=20 =20 You can certainly tune and fly safely without either of these units to = monitor/adjust your MAP - I did it for years. However, I never could = eliminate my staging bog (for example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio = indicator and the fuel MAP as the engine operating point approached the = staging point. For whatever the reason, my A/F ratio would take a nose = dive toward the lean side just before staging - causing a temporary (but = annoying) hesitation or bog. Using the graphical display I began = increasing the richness of each bin as the A/F indicated lean and = advance bin by bin making this adjustment until after increasing 4-6 = bins just before the staging point, my staging bog has completely = disappeared. =20 It is also difficult (at least for me) to try to tune the EC2 by = advancing the manifold pressure =BD" Hg at a time to activate each bin. = I also found (using the EFISM), that when I adjusted the value of the = bin my engine was operating on - that change (rich or lean) invariably = cause the engine to change operating conditions - just enough so that it = would shift to the adjacent bin or two - so I was no longer tuning the = same bin as a moment before. I know some can do it by hear - Tracy for = example - but, for me visual was much easier to do. =20 In any case whether Tracy's EM2/3 or my EFISM - I think most will find = a graphical representation easier to work with. =20 Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 The following is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago: =20 "Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an EM2/3 = or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting your time. I spent the better = part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well = done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with = mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM = and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine running = smoother than it ever has and now have it is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. = That's 300 RPM lower than I was ever able to get it previously. In my = opinion you really HAVE to have some sort of indication of what is = loaded in the MAP table to effectively tune it." =20 I whole-heartedly agree!! I installed ED's EFISM last night and was = anxious to see my MCT - let's just say it was a mess. There were a few = points, mostly around the staging area, where I could see that some = tuning had taken place; however, there were several locations with wild = swings from one bin to the next. These wild variations appeared in the = middle of the high rpm band where the engine has spent very little time, = as I'm usually near idle or WOT - but man it sure is nice to actually = see what's going on. Jeff __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA10E4.E2F38B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
Would your EFISM be advantageous to a = carb set-up=20 or do you have to have the electronics of the EC2 and sensors = etc.
George (down under)

Thanks for = the kind=20 words about the EFISM, Jeff.  I think most folks will find that = being=20 able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much easier to = understand=20 what your engine is doing and how well your MAP is adjusted  =96 = the only=20 two units offered  that are capable of doing this (that I am = aware=20 of)

Is = Tracy=92s = RWL excellent=20 EM2/3 system and my EFISM.  Either one will provide this = capability.=20

 

You can = certainly=20 tune and fly safely without either of these units to monitor/adjust = your MAP =96=20 I did it for years.  However, I never could eliminate my staging = bog (for=20 example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicator and the fuel MAP = as the=20 engine operating point approached the staging point.  For = whatever the=20 reason, my A/F ratio  would take a nose dive toward the lean side = just=20 before staging =96 causing a temporary (but annoying) hesitation or = bog. =20 Using the graphical display I began increasing the richness of each = bin as the=20 A/F indicated lean and  advance bin by bin making this adjustment = until=20 after increasing 4-6 bins just before the staging point, my staging = bog has=20 completely disappeared.

 

It is also = difficult=20 (at least for me) to try to tune the EC2 by advancing the manifold = pressure =BD=94=20 Hg  at a time to activate each bin.  I also found (using the = EFISM),=20 that when I adjusted the value of the bin my engine was operating on = =96 that=20 change (rich or lean) invariably cause the engine to change operating=20 conditions =96 just enough so that it would shift to the adjacent bin = or two =96=20 so I was no longer tuning the same bin as a moment before.  I = know some=20 can do it by hear =96 Tracy for example =96 but, for me = visual was=20 much easier to do.

 

In any case = whether=20 Tracy=92s EM2/3=20 or my EFISM =96 I think most will find a graphical representation = easier to work=20 with.

 

Ed

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 = 9:05=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and = Ed's EFISM -=20 a great combination

 

The = following is=20 an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months=20 ago:

 

=93Anyone trying to tune = up=20 Tracy's EC2=20 without either having an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM, you're wasting = your=20 time. I spent the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and = thought I=20 had it pretty well done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of = time=20 fiddling with mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I = installed=20 Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine = running=20 smoother than it ever has and now have it is idling nicely at 1350 = RPM. That=92s=20 300 RPM lower than I was ever able to get it previously. In my opinion = you=20 really HAVE to have some sort of indication of what is loaded in = the MAP=20 table to effectively tune it.=94

 

I = whole-heartedly=20 agree!! I installed ED=92s EFISM last night and was anxious to see my = MCT =96=20 let=92s just say it was a mess. There were a few points, mostly around = the=20 staging area, where I could see that some tuning had taken place; = however,=20 there were several locations with wild swings from one bin to the = next. These=20 wild variations appeared in the middle of the high rpm band where the = engine=20 has spent very little time, as I=92m usually near idle or WOT =96 but = man it sure=20 is nice to actually see what=92s going = on.

Jeff



__________=20 Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature = database=20 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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