X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from securemail.ever-tek.com ([64.129.170.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3783136 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:50:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@bellairepolice.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:50:12 -0500 From: "Chris Barber" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....but think anyway. To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" , "Rotary motors in aircraft" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....but think anyway. Thread-Index: AcoPIx+hIy94QKsxQFi+o8aaPjz73QAAYxtu References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA0F25.BED5B0C4" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA0F25.BED5B0C4 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy, =20 Yes, the 16 gage wire that I found broken is the one you discussed going = from the Ground stud on the EC2 case to the airframe...or in my case, as = a composite plane, to the ground block forest, NOT to a D-sub. Thanks th= ough. Sorry if'n I was unclear. I appreciate the thoughts. So, it look= s like another trip to Florida for my electronics. :-( =20 So, could the bad 16gage wire be the culprit for the EC2 serial connectio= n going belly up? I really did not change anything. As I mentioned I am = trying to get the plane primed with UV primer since it is gonna have to s= it on the ramp for a while during the repair of our hangars roof. Guessi= n' some of you Florida types know the pain of Hurricanes..... =20 Thanks. =20 =20 Chris Houston =20 Cpl. Christopher Barber, JD Badge 330 Bellaire Police Department 5110 Jessamine Bellaire, Texas 77401 =20 713-668-0487 713-662-8289 fax =20 CBarber@BellairePolice.com ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Tracy Crook Sent: Mon 7/27/2009 8:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....but think anyway. Sure. That is why I programmed the EM2 to display "NOP" (inoperative). = If the the wires are hooked up properly, power is on to both units and th= e EM2/3 flashes "NOP", the data link is blown. No EE degree required : ) BTW, if I read your previous post correctly, you tried to crimp a 16 ga w= ire on that tiny subminiature D connector pin. The maximum wire size is = 20ga and the recommended wire size is 22 ga. A 16 ga wire will almost g= uarantee a failed crimp connection. The short 16 ga wire connection recommended in the installation guide goe= s from the Ground stud on the EC2 case to the airframe. Tracy On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Chris Barber wrote: Tracy, =20 I hate to even ask, as I gotta still go out and test the serial wires, h= owever, is there a way...uh, simple way for us non EE types to check if I= blew the thing again? TIA. =20 Chris =20 Cpl. Christopher Barber, JD Badge 330 Bellaire Police Department 5110 Jessamine Bellaire, Texas 77401 =20 713-668-0487 713-662-8289 fax =20 CBarber@BellairePolice.com ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Tracy Crook Sent: Mon 7/27/2009 1:50 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =09 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....but think anyway. =09 =09 If the serial data link between the EC2 and EM2 is blown (by a missing = ground or other reason) as indicated by the NOP flashing in the EM2 TACH= window, it means that the EM2 and EC2 can no longer communicate each oth= er. =09 If they can no longer communicate, that means the EM2/3 can not possibly= know or display what is in the EC2/3 MAP table. So, at this point you= should not conclude that the MAP table is blown, corrupted, blank, etc. =09 Tracy =09 =09 On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Christopher Barber wrote: =09 I turned on the EC2/EM2 last night and as expected the NOP is flashing = at me, laughing at my meager attempts to get my airplane airborne. Also,= I checked out the MAP and everything is flat-lined. All the bars are all= the way down at the bottom. Normally, my engine runs well with all bars= in the middle (at 0). I did not look at the actual numbers, but I think= it must be -127 (is that right). I saw everything down at the bottom, a= nd went back to sanding my cowlings and wheel pants.....for now. =09 I guess I will try to reset to factory defaults (which is where it has = been running well so far) tonight. See if it even takes the reset. In the past, the NOP meant a trip back to Tracy. (plus = trying to figure out the why (broken ground???....but what else, if any) = =09 All the best, =09 Chris=20 Bill Bradburry wrote: =09 Chris, =09 Even if the wire was not completely separated, it was probably only co= nnected by a couple of strands and as it moved (vibrated?) maybe some of = the other strands made contact from time to time causing no telling what = kind of intermittent effects. Lucky for you, it finally fell apart and y= ou found it. =09 Bill B=20 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- =09 *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]= *On Behalf Of *Chris Barber *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:26 PM *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid..... =09 Perhaps the cause of many problems, however, the broken wire was NOT b= roken two weeks ago when I rewired the ECU and got it running so well. I= just happened to notice it right off yesterday (gee, what are the odds o= f me finding something on the first thing I happened to check. Guessin' = that will be the last time). =09 =20 I had to walk away yesterday, take a breath and focused on some micro = fill and sanding I needed to do. I at least FELT a bit productive in spit= e of the demoralizing impact. I hate the idea of sending the unit back t= o Tracy again. He may have had it more than I have. =09 =20 I will play with the sanding stuff tonight and get back to the engine = directly. I will be checking the MAP table first, but the NOP is what re= ally concerns/bothers me. I am guessing the bad ground could have been t= he cause, however, the NOP did NOT go away after I found the bad ground. = I fear it may have trashed my serial circuit again. Donno, just specula= tion at this point. Trying to keep a stiff upper lip =09 =20 All the best, =09 =20 Chris =09 Houston =09 =20 Cpl. Christopher Barber, JD =09 Badge 330 =09 Bellaire Police Department =09 5110 Jessamine =09 Bellaire, Texas 77401 =09 =20 713-668-0487 =09 713-662-8289 fax =09 =20 CBarber@BellairePolice.com =09 =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -- =09 *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Bill Bradburry *Sent:* Sun 7/26/2009 2:03 PM *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid..... =09 Chris, I would be surprised if you didn't just solve a whole passel of proble= ms with your EC-2. There is not telling what that cut ground connection = was doing over the past. High resistance, intermittent, open..who knows. Fixing this should make your EC-2 much more solid. Bill B =09 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] O= n Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid..... =09 Thanks guys. I wrote NOS...course, I meant NOP. =09 Hmmm, Al, I considered a second ground but was concerned that it may c= ause a problem I would be unaware of. Another testament to my ignorance, but learning and better everyday. I shall see what I can do. =09 I think I may have over crimped this particular connector. When I exa= mined it, it seemed more cut than crimped. Donno what caused that. I use a = ratchet crimper and have not had problems before, however, most of my previous crimps were 20 gage and not 16, so I will check the tool a= nd my process. =09 There was no strain on this particular wire. It is the very short gro= und Tracy recommend, IIRC, to be shorter than 12 inches. I relocated my E= CU to accommodate this instruction. =09 =09 All the best, =09 Chris Houston =09 Bob White wrote: > I agree, also if the wire can vibrate, do something to restrain it > better. > > Bob W. > > On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 23:12:25 -0500 > Dave wrote: > > >> Sounds like some strain relief is in order. >> >> Al Wick wrote: >> >>> Oem solution for broken wire is brilliant. They use more tha= n one >>> wire for both ground and power. Huge improvement in reliability. >>> >>> -al wick >>> >>> >>> I looked at the wires to the ECU and all was secure, EXCEPT, I >>> notice my >>> main (16gage) ground wire broke at the connector at the ECU. >>> Repaired >>> the wire. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > > =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =09 =09 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html =09 =09 Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previou= s e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is le= gally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person res= ponsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby noti= fied that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the info= rmation contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBI= TED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately = notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmiss= ion and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. =09 =09 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html =09 Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous = e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is lega= lly privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person respo= nsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notifi= ed that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the inform= ation contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITE= D. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately no= tify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmissio= n and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. =09 =09 Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e= -mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legal= ly privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person respon= sible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notifie= d that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the informa= tion contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED= =2E If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately n= otify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmissi= on and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA0F25.BED5B0C4 Content-Type: text/html;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=
Tracy,<= /DIV>=0A
 
=0A=
Yes, the 16 gage wire that&nbs= p;I found broken is the one you discussed going from the Ground stud on the EC2 case to th= e airframe...or in my case, as a composite plane, to the ground bloc= k forest, NOT to a D-sub.  Thanks though.  Sorry if'n I was unc= lear.  I appreciate the thoughts.  So, it looks like another tr= ip to Florida for my electronics. :-(
=0A
 
=0A
So, could the bad 16gage wire be t= he culprit for the EC2 serial connection going belly up?  I really d= id not change anything. As I mentioned I am trying to get the plane prime= d with UV primer since it is gonna have to sit on the ramp for a while du= ring the repair of our hangars roof.  Guessin' some of you Florida t= ypes know the pain of Hurricanes.....
=0A
 
=0A
Thanks. 
=0A
 
=0A
Chris
=0A
Houston=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
=0A
Cpl. Christopher Barber, JD
=0ABadge 330
=0A
= Bellaire Police Department
=0A
5110 J= essamine
=0A
Bellaire, Texas 77401
=0A
 
=0A
713-668-0487
=0A
713-662-= 8289 fax
=0A
 
=0ACBarber@BellairePolice.com
=0A
=0A
=0A= From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Tracy Crook
Sent:<= /B> Mon 7/27/2009 8:30 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
S= ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....but think anyway.
=0A
Sure.  That is why I programmed the EM2 to display "= NOP" (inoperative).  If the the wires are hooked up properly, power = is on to both units and the EM2/3 flashes "NOP", the data link is blown.&= nbsp; No EE degree required : )

BTW, if I read your previous post = correctly, you tried to crimp a 16 ga wire on that tiny subminiature D co= nnector pin.  The maximum wire size is 20ga and the recommended wire= size is 22 ga.   A 16 ga wire will almost guarantee a failed c= rimp connection.

The short 16 ga wire connection recommended in th= e installation guide goes from the Ground stud on the EC2 case to = the airframe.

Tracy

=0A
On Mon, Jul= 27, 2009 at 5:23 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@bellairepolice.com> wro= te:
=0A
=0A
= =0A
=0A
Tracy,
=0A
<= /FONT> 
=0A
I hate to= even ask, as I gotta still go out and test the serial wires, however, is= there a way...uh, simple way for us non EE types to check if I blew the = thing again?  TIA.
=0A
 
=0A
Chris
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
=0A=
Cpl. Christopher Barber, JD
=0A
Badge 330
=0A
Bellaire Police Department
=0A
5110 Jessamine
=0A
Bellaire, T= exas 77401
=0A
 
=0A=
713-668-0487
=0A
713-662-8289 fax
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
CBarber@BellairePolice.com
=0A

=0A
=0AFrom: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Tracy Crook
S= ent: Mon 7/27/2009 1:50 PM =0A

To: Rotary m= otors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid....= =2Ebut think anyway.

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
 If the serial data link between the EC2 and EM2 is= blown (by a missing ground or other reason) as indicated by the NOP flas= hing in the EM2  TACH window, it means that the EM2 and EC2 can no l= onger communicate each other.

If they can no longer communicate, t= hat means the EM2/3 can not possibly know or display what is in the EC2/3= MAP table.   So,  at this point you should not conclude t= hat the MAP table is blown, corrupted, blank, etc.

Tracy

=0A=
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Christopher Bar= ber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
=0AI turned on the EC2/EM2 l= ast night and as expected the NOP is flashing at me, laughing at my meage= r attempts to get my airplane airborne.  Also, I checked out the MAP= and everything is flat-lined. All the bars are all the way down at the b= ottom.  Normally, my engine runs well with all bars in the middle (a= t 0).  I did not look at the actual numbers, but I think it must be = -127 (is that right).  I saw everything down at the bottom, and went= back to sanding my cowlings and wheel pants.....for now.

I guess = I will try to reset to factory defaults (which is where it has been runni= ng well so far) tonight.  See if it even takes the reset. <sigh&g= t;  In the past, the NOP meant a trip back to Tracy. <heavier sig= h> (plus trying to figure out the why (broken ground???....but what el= se, if any) <even heavier sigh>

All the best,

Chris =0A=
=0A
=0A


Bill Bradburry wrote:
=0A
Chris,

Even if th= e wire was not completely separated, it was probably only connected by a = couple of strands and as it moved (vibrated?) maybe some of the other str= ands made contact from time to time causing no telling what kind of inter= mittent effects.  Lucky for you, it finally fell apart and you found= it.

Bill B
 
----------------------------------------= --------------------------------

*From:* Rotary motors in aircraft= [mailto:f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of *Chris Barber
*Sent:* Su= nday, July 26, 2009 4:26 PM
*To:* Rotary motors in aircraft
*Subjec= t:* [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....

Perhaps the cause of many prob= lems, however, the broken wire was NOT broken two weeks ago when I rewire= d the ECU and got it running so well.  I just happened to notice it = right off yesterday (gee, what are the odds of me finding something on th= e first thing I happened to check.  Guessin' that will be the last t= ime<g>).

 
I had to walk away yesterday, take a brea= th and focused on some micro fill and sanding I needed to do. I at least = FELT a bit productive in spite of the demoralizing impact.  I hate t= he idea of sending the unit back to Tracy again.  He may have had it= more than I have.

 
I will play with the sanding stuff to= night and get back to the engine directly.  I will be checking the M= AP table first, but the NOP is what really concerns/bothers me.  I a= m guessing the bad ground could have been the cause, however, the NOP did= NOT go away after I found the bad ground.  I fear it may have trash= ed my serial circuit again.  Donno, just speculation at this point. = <sigh> Trying to keep a stiff upper lip <g>

 
= All the best,

 
Chris

Houston

 
Cpl.= Christopher Barber, JD

Badge 330

Bellaire Police Departmen= t

5110 Jessamine

Bellaire, Texas 77401

 
713= -668-0487

713-662-8289 fax

 
CBarber@BellairePolice= =2Ecom

 
-------------------------------------------------= -----------------------

*From:* Rotary motors in aircraft on behal= f of Bill Bradburry
*Sent:* Sun 7/26/2009 2:03 PM
*To:* Rotary moto= rs in aircraft
*Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....

Chris= ,
I would be surprised if you didn't just solve a whole passel of prob= lems
with your EC-2.  There is not telling what that cut ground c= onnection was
doing over the past.  High resistance, intermittent= , open..who knows.
Fixing this should make your EC-2 much more solid.<= BR>Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in air= craft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Christopher BarberSent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:08 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraftSubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Just livid.....

Thanks guys. I wrote NOS= =2E..course, I meant NOP.

Hmmm, Al, I considered a second ground b= ut was concerned that it may cause a
problem I would be unaware of. &n= bsp;Another testament to my ignorance, but
learning and better everyda= y.  I shall see what I can do.

I think I may have over crimpe= d this particular connector.  When I examined
it, it seemed more = cut than crimped.  Donno what caused that. I use a ratchet crimper a= nd have not had problems before, however, most of
my previous crimps w= ere 20 gage and not 16, so I will check the tool and my
process.
There was no strain on this particular wire.  It is the very short= ground
Tracy recommend, IIRC, to be shorter than 12 inches.  I r= elocated my ECU to
accommodate this instruction.

<sigh>
All the best,

Chris
Houston

Bob White wrote:
&g= t; I agree, also if the wire can vibrate, do something to restrain it
= > better.
>
> Bob W.
>
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 2= 3:12:25 -0500
> Dave <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> &nb= sp;>> Sounds like some strain relief is in order.
>>
&g= t;> Al Wick wrote:
>>    >>> Oem solution = for broken wire is brilliant. They use more than one
>>> wire= for both ground and power. Huge improvement in reliability.
>>&= gt; >>> -al wick
>>>
>>>
>>>=     I looked at the wires to the ECU and all was secure, EXCEP= T, I
>>>     notice my
>>>    = ; main (16gage) ground wire broke at the connector at the ECU.
>>= ;>     Repaired
>>>     the wire.
&= gt;>>
>>>     >>>
>>> &n= bsp;    >> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
&= gt;> Archive and UnSub:
http://mail.lancaironline.net= :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>    >
>>  
--
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Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


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Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documen= ts, files or previous e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential in= formation that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipie= nt or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient,= you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or us= e of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission= is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error,= please immediately notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy th= e original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank y= ou.


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Warn= ing: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mai= ls attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally p= rivileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsibl= e for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified th= at any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information= contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If= you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify = us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmission and= its attachments without reading them. Thank you.



Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previo= us e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is l= egally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person re= sponsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby not= ified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the inf= ormation contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIB= ITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately= notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmis= sion and its attachments without reading them. Thank you.

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