X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3750213 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:54:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.243; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DdMS1c0021smiN4ADdtlbR; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:53:45 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Ddtg1c00v23NHuF8gdtjBQ; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:53:44 +0000 Message-ID: <6C3E74FB586D4708844209C441F57686@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 20:53:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C5_01CA000E.2B4FC270" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02C5_01CA000E.2B4FC270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Remember that Lynn modifies his housing by grinding off the eyebrows to = use the autolite plugs. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs Lynn and Group, I checked my local "Auto Zone" and they claimed to be = unable to get the "AutoLite" AR2592 sparkplug...............Checked "Rock Auto" (Link below) and = they have them in packs of 4 for $2.69 (each plug)...........Ordered 8 of them for = $21.52 + $5.47 shipping but "AutoLite" has a rebate offer of $0.50 per plug for up to 16 = plugs until Nov. 30,2009 for copper core plugs (rebate link below).............To find the = sparkplug do a part number search (AR2592) , Add the manufacturer (AutoLite) , Then use "all" = for the part group because if you use "Ignition" and "Sparkplug" for part type it will = say "No part found".... FWIW=20 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?a=3DG-Store http://www.autolite.com/rebate/pdf/spark-plug-09.pdf -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Lynn Hanover = : --------------=20 In a message dated 7/7/2009 3:22:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, = bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes: Steve, I hope Lynn chimes in here. He has seen a lot of plugs under a = lot of conditions. They look pitted to me. There seems nothing wrong = with your conditions. The only thing on the list would be too lean.?? Someone is out there writing up a great response right now! :>) Bill B=20 That plug has been too hot.=20 Stock Mazda plugs are rather cold in heat range by way of the = guards around the shell. The electrode runs a bit hotter than normal. = Plug heat ranges are determined by how far down the shell the porcelain = touches. The longer the heat path, the hotter the plug.=20 Using car plugs in the aircraft application seems to be asking for = trouble. In the car on the freeway you use 2,600 RPM and 1/2 throttle, = maybe 24 to 28 HP. Not much of a challenge for a spark plug. But there = is the=20 driver who will jump into his 95 twin turbo in LA and run out to = LasVegas at full tilt and expect to still have an engine when he gets = there. And usually he does. So, if I was to use a street plug in an = aircraft, I would use the 93-95 twin turbo plug, whatever that is. The aircraft application, less the 100LL fuel problem, is clearly = a cold racing plug with a conventional gap or close to it.=20 Years ago when we started racing rotaries, Champion said to use = the N-57G Fine wire center with gold paladium plating and a conventional = ground strap. About 20% of the center wire is exposed in an end view. The N-57G and similar are discontinued and the N-82 series = replaced it. The shell is thinner and the porcelain is wider. Same fine = wire center, no gold anything. 20% of the wire exposed in an end view.=20 Both worked fine even with points and a Kettering coil. Poor folks race with Autolight AR2692 end style and small = porcelain just like the N-57G. Full size center wire, conventional = strap, but 100% of the center wire is exposed in an end view. Actually = used by NASCAR and the local circle track people, and stocked by = Autozone and others. About $5.00 a box of 4. They work fine. I raced = them one weekend, no problems, but we were getting the NGK plugs for = free so I stuck with them.=20 The NGKR6725-115 stamped on the body actually means that the heat = range is 11.5 not 115. $25.00 each. 50% of the center wire exposed in an end view. Free for some = Rotary engined competitors. Retracted gap (the whole thing is inside the = shell. Fine wire center and fine wire ground strap. Ice cold. Long body = so it is easy to install and remove in the rotary.=20 I grind off those eyebrow things above the plug holes so I can use = any plug I like. And any 5/8" plug just goes in so easy. Most heat = ranges are available in the 5/8" shells.=20 Rotaries do not like high heat range plugs. The housings crack = across the leading plug hole. Over time a complete set of radial cracks = form.=20 In the picture, left to right is the Autolight AR2592, Champion = N-82, NGK R6725-115, and Champion=20 N-57G.=20 Lynn E. Hanover ------=_NextPart_000_02C5_01CA000E.2B4FC270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Remember that Lynn modifies his housing = by grinding=20 off the eyebrows to use the autolite plugs.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I = testing
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 = 1:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark = plugs

Lynn and Group,
 
         I checked my = local=20 "Auto Zone" and they claimed to be unable to get the = "AutoLite"
AR2592 sparkplug...............Checked "Rock Auto" (Link below) = and=20 they have them in
packs of 4 for $2.69 (each plug)...........Ordered 8 of them = for $21.52=20 + $5.47 shipping
but "AutoLite" has a rebate offer of $0.50 per plug for up to = 16 plugs=20 until Nov. 30,2009
for copper core plugs (rebate link below).............To find = the=20 sparkplug do a part number
search (AR2592) , Add the manufacturer (AutoLite) , Then = use "all"=20 for the part group
because if you use "Ignition" and "Sparkplug" for part type it = will say=20 "No part found"....
 
FWIW 
 
 
h= ttp://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?a=3DG-Store
 
http://www.= autolite.com/rebate/pdf/spark-plug-09.pdf
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from Lynn Hanover <lehanover@gmail.com>:=20 --------------

In a message dated 7/7/2009 3:22:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight = Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net=20 writes:
Steve,
I hope Lynn chimes in here.  He has seen = a lot of=20 plugs under a lot of
conditions.  They look pitted to = me. =20 There seems nothing wrong with your
conditions.  The = only thing=20 on the list would be too lean.??
Someone is out there writing = up a=20 great response right now!  :>)
Bill B=20
That plug has been too hot.
 
Stock Mazda plugs are rather cold in heat range by way of the = guards=20 around the shell. The electrode runs a bit hotter than normal. = Plug heat=20 ranges are determined by how far down the shell the porcelain = touches. The=20 longer the heat path, the hotter the plug.
 
Using car plugs in the aircraft application seems to be = asking for=20 trouble. In the car on the freeway you use 2,600 RPM and 1/2 = throttle,=20 maybe 24 to 28 HP. Not much of a challenge for a spark plug. = But=20 there is the
driver who will jump into his 95 twin turbo in LA and run out = to LasVegas at full tilt and expect to still have an engine = when he=20 gets there. And usually he does.  So, if I was to use a = street plug=20 in an aircraft, I would use the 93-95 twin turbo plug, whatever = that=20 is.
 
The aircraft application, less the 100LL fuel problem, is = clearly a=20 cold racing plug with a conventional gap or close to it.
 
Years ago when we started racing rotaries, Champion said to = use the=20 N-57G Fine wire center with gold paladium plating and a = conventional=20 ground strap. About 20% of the center wire is exposed in an end=20 view.
 
The N-57G and similar are discontinued and the N-82 series = replaced=20 it. The shell is thinner and the porcelain is wider. Same fine = wire=20 center, no gold anything. 20% of the wire exposed in an end view. =
Both worked fine even with points and a Kettering coil.
 
Poor folks race with Autolight AR2692 end style and small = porcelain=20 just like the N-57G. Full size center wire, conventional strap, = but 100%=20 of the center wire is exposed in an end view. Actually used by = NASCAR and=20 the local circle track people, and stocked by Autozone and others. = About=20 $5.00 a box of 4. They work fine. I raced them one weekend, no = problems,=20 but we were getting the NGK plugs for free so I stuck with them. =
 
The NGKR6725-115 stamped on the body actually means that the = heat=20 range is 11.5 not 115. $25.00 each.
50% of the center wire exposed in an end view. Free for some = Rotary=20 engined competitors. Retracted gap (the whole thing is inside the = shell.=20 Fine wire center and fine wire ground strap. Ice cold. Long body = so it is=20 easy to install and remove in the rotary.
 
I grind off those eyebrow things above the plug holes so I = can use=20 any plug I like. And any 5/8" plug just goes in so easy. Most heat = ranges=20 are available in the 5/8" shells.
 
Rotaries do not like high heat range plugs. The housings = crack across=20 the leading plug hole. Over time a complete set of radial cracks = form.=20
 
In the picture, left to right is the Autolight AR2592, = Champion N-82,=20 NGK R6725-115, and Champion
N-57G. 
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
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