RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Avoid reading .....

X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3747077 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:38:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090706233741486.PNGH2041@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2009 23:37:41 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Avoid reading ..... Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 19:37:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C9FE71.444E1FE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acn+jrrTQxRZRNKAQWuXNdv+Jx1k0QAAtLlw Message-Id: <20090706233741486.PNGH2041@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C9FE71.444E1FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:04:37 -0400 "Ed Anderson" wrote: > Any time the EC2 is not grounding its' side of the injector (causing it > to inject) there is 12+ Volts at the EC2 injector pin on the EC2 box - > Unless you have turned the disable switch for that pair of injectors > off (no voltage to injectors). Until the EC2 grounding pulse there is > no current flow and therefore no voltage drop across the injector. So > if there is 12+ volts on one side then there is 12+ volts on both sides > including at the EC2 injector pin. Once the ground pulse is sent then > the voltage is dropped across the injectors and there is indeed near > zero volts on the EC2 pin. > > So I would think it would be easy for the EC2 to sense whether there is > 12 volts on that pin between injector pulses and if there is 12+ volts, > then the EC2 would know it is powered up. Yes, that would work, so it's quite possible that the EC2 is keeping track of which injectors have power. I take back the blanket statement that it isn't happening. Sorry Steve. > > Ok, we are now below staging point cooking along on two primary injectors (I > know you disagree with this point, Bob, but bear with me) When you drop > below that staging point the EC2 automatically doubles the nominal pulse > duration because you have stopped using the 2 secondary injectors. > Normally you are using the two primary injectors below staging. So we still > have the same fuel flow below with 2 injectors that we had above staging > point with 4 injectors - so fuel flow both sides of the staging point is the > same (ideally). Engine runs fine. > > > Now, while below staging, you manually turn off the primary injectors by > turning off their disable switch. This removes power from the primary > injectors and grounds the cold start circuit. But - wait, I postulate that > below staging the cold start circuit is already in effect (doubling the > pulse duration). So there is no further doubling and the EC2 senses power > removed from the primary injectors, senses power is still there on the > secondary injectors and immediately starts firing the secondary injectors. > Engine Runs Fine. > > NOW IF this theory is correct then turning on the cold start switch on the > PCM panel with only one pair of injectors operating below staging - should > do nothing regarding the pulse duration as its already double that that > nominally required for 4 injectors. Engine Runs Fine. > OK, but Steve has already reported that if he turns on the cold start switch while at idle, the engine will run rich and die. I'm pretty sure I've done the same thing. If one set of injectors is turned off, then the engine will run fine. I think the cold start doubling and the staging pulse modification (halving on the way up and doubling on the way down) are independent from each other. At least I think I understand our differences and thats some progress. :) I've always assumed that the cold start switch on the PCM would always double fuel flow and setting cold start when disabling a bank of injectors would always keep fuel flow the same (within limits). Bob W. Ok, Bob, I agree, it does appear that the normal doubling of the pulse for the primary injectors below staging is independent of the cold start doubling. That then would indicate that turning on the cold start switch on the PCM panel would indeed double the duration again - giving you about twice the fuel flow you need. The engine, particularly at low rpm, would tend to bog on that much fuel as Steve indicated. Interestingly enough, however, it does appear that below staging that simply turning off one pair or the other does not induce the cold start doubling as it does above staging point. Otherwise, when I turn off the primary disable switch it should engage the cold start function and cause too much fuel - but instead, the EC2 appears to simply kick on the secondary injectors and things continue per normal. So, It appears that below staging you must use the cold start switch on the PCM panel to induce the cold start doubling. Ed -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/ -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C9FE71.444E1FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Avoid reading .....

On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:04:37 -0400

"Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:

<snip>

> Any time the EC2 is not grounding its' side of the injector = (causing it

> to inject) there is 12+ Volts at the EC2 injector pin on = the EC2 box -

> Unless you have turned the disable switch for that pair of = injectors

> off (no voltage to injectors). Until the EC2 grounding pulse = there is

> no current flow and therefore no voltage drop across the = injector. So

> if there is 12+ volts on one side then there is 12+ volts on = both sides

> including at the EC2 injector pin. Once the ground pulse is = sent then

> the voltage is dropped across the injectors and there is = indeed near

> zero volts on the EC2 pin.

> So I would think it would be easy for the EC2 to sense whether = there is

> 12 volts on that pin between injector pulses and if there is = 12+ volts,

> then the EC2 would know it is powered up.

Yes, that would work, so it's quite possible that the EC2 is = keeping

track of which injectors have power. I take back the blanket = statement

that it isn't happening. Sorry Steve.

<snip>

> Ok, we are now below staging point cooking along on two = primary injectors (I

> know you disagree with this point, Bob, but bear with me) When = you drop

> below that staging point the EC2 automatically doubles the = nominal pulse

> duration because you have stopped using the 2 secondary = injectors.

> Normally you are using the two primary injectors below = staging. So we still

> have the same fuel flow below with 2 injectors that we had = above staging

> point with 4 injectors – so fuel flow both sides of the = staging point is the

> same (ideally). Engine runs fine.

> Now, while below staging, you manually turn off the primary = injectors by

> turning off their disable switch. This removes power = from the primary

> injectors and grounds the cold start circuit. But - wait, I = postulate that

> below staging the cold start circuit is already in effect = (doubling the

> pulse duration). So there is no further doubling and the = EC2 senses power

> removed from the primary injectors, senses power is still = there on the

> secondary injectors and immediately starts firing the = secondary injectors.

> Engine Runs Fine.

> NOW IF this theory is correct then turning on the cold start = switch on the

> PCM panel with only one pair of injectors operating below = staging - should

> do nothing regarding the pulse duration as its already double = that that

> nominally required for 4 injectors. Engine Runs Fine. =

<snip>

OK, but Steve has already reported that if he turns on the cold = start

switch while at idle, the engine will run rich and die. I'm = pretty

sure I've done the same thing. If one set of injectors is = turned

off, then the engine will run fine. I think the cold start = doubling

and the staging pulse modification (halving on the way up and = doubling

on the way down) are independent from each other. At least I = think I

understand our differences and thats some progress. :) = I've always

assumed that the cold start switch on the PCM would always double = fuel

flow and setting cold start when disabling a bank of = injectors would

always keep fuel flow the same (within limits).

Bob W.

Ok, Bob, I agree, it does appear that = the normal doubling of the pulse = for the primary injectors below staging is independent of the cold start = doubling. That then would indicate that turning on the cold start = switch on the PCM panel would indeed double the duration = again - giving you about twice the fuel flow you = need. The engine, particularly at low rpm, would tend to bog on = that much fuel as Steve indicated.

Interestingly enough, however, it does appear that below staging = that simply turning off one pair or the other does not induce the cold = start doubling as it does above staging point. Otherwise, when I turn off the primary = disable switch it should engage the = cold start function and cause too much fuel - but instead, the EC2 = appears to simply kick on the secondary injectors and things continue per = normal. So, It appears that below = staging you must use the cold start switch on the PCM panel to induce = the cold start doubling.

N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com

3.8 Hours Total Time and holding

Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/

Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub: http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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