X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3744816 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:38:54 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090704153817.KZDN20430.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:38:17 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.87.229]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id BreD1c00G4wtUdQ04reG71; Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:38:16 -0400 X-VR-Score: -210.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=brbtPLZuEFwA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=fh-ys7k49Na_ANFLDr4A:9 a=PR8YZ7xKKmyK-MjPo6QA:7 a=Gy7a3vd4xLBvMn3Obtn5SjLzEvoA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=_8OfLQcjMHayPWL_:21 a=TtgKBYwMHlY2-U0l:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=Fo588bNKaH1uLdAcao0A:9 a=fNCTG66_Qb8ORW8ivZQA:7 a=kKSLm7-xM6bRWIW0I4ZqKfmmCBQA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <7FD8795093D944A2BCB3EF40CB6F7048@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ignition Check?? Re: frustrating couple of days Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:38:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01C9FC82.C58F4A20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C9FC82.C58F4A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, I was not clear in my description of when the problem seems to be = occuring. So to clarify: In my normal tuning of the EC2 I never mess with the B controller. And = have never noted a problem with corruption of EC2 data. When I began = flight testing back in February thats when the problem began to occur. = After 3 instances I stopped flying. I decided it was about time to resume flight test last weekend after 4 = months of mods and ground running without any problems. On saturday I = flipped to the B controller just to see if it was OK and the engine = died. This was not immediately preceeding a planned flight and I did not = perform an ignition check. Over the course of the weekend I had a total = of 4 cases of corrupt data. Three times there was an undefined problem = on B that prevented the engine from running and one case where the A = staging point got corrupted. The ONLY difference between these 4 cases = of failure and the previous 4 months of failure free testing was the = selection of the B controller. I never tested the ignition. These 4 failures occured over the course of approximately 25 engine = starts and a total run time of about 2.5 hours this past weekend. For = each engine start I toggled back and forth between A and B multiple = times at various RPM settings. I estimate around 100 operations of the = A/B switch resulting in 4 failures. The definition of intermittent. Does this clarify? BTW, I am going to take your advice and add a .01uf = cap on the A/B input. What have I got to lose at this point? Thanks, Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 8:39 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Ignition Check?? Re: frustrating couple of days Mike,=20 =20 I could not help but wonder that when you were unsuccessfully = attempting to replicate you B controller problem by switching back and = forth - did you also try your ignition check while in B? You mentioned = that you normally made an ignition check with controller B on in = preparation for flight. However, you did not indicate that you were = making such a check when you were trying to duplicate the problem. =20 =20 IF you did not, then I would suggest that you again try to duplicate = the problem by switching from A to B, but include the ignition check = while in B. Do it a few times and see whether or not B gets corrupted. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 10:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days =20 Steve, =20 My staging point is set at 18" which ends up being around 3300RPM. So = far I still havent been able to prove for certain that the corruption is = linked to switching A > B, much less determine that it only happens = above or below the staging point. =20 All 4 of my injectors are the same - checked them all with an = ohmmeter. They are all of the type that does not require an external = resistor. =20 Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steven Boese=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days =20 Mike, =20 Is 3000 rpm above your staging point? If the corruption of the = controller only happens when changing from A to B above the staging = point, check to see if one or both secondary injectors have lower = resistance than specified. =20 Steve Boese =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:50 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days =20 Dave, =20 Thanks for the offer and the input. Swapping my EC into your plane = would be a desperation last move due to all of the hassles involved. And = as you say would not necessarily prove anything. =20 I said it happens when I'm preparing to fly, but that isnt entirely = accurate. It would be more accurate to say that in the past it has = happened only when I have switched to the back-up controller which = usually occurs in prep for flight. This past weekend I had fired it up = and taxied down to EAA for lunch. After lunch I taxied back to my hangar = and prior to shutting down I ran the engine up to about 3000 RPM and = switched to the B controller. The engine died and I had to copy the A = program to B to get it to run on B. Switching to B was the only pre = takeoff checklist item I performed. =20 I think about the only thing you hit on here that might be related = is heat. But hard to say without more instances of failure and a way to = link cause and effect. On saturday when the engine quit on B the engine = was completely cowled. On sunday when I had the second instance of an = engine quitting on B, the upper cowl was off but the lower was on. When = the staging point was lost the upper was off, lower on. Yesterday when = the engine quit on the first attempt at switching to B the engine was = completely uncowled. Maybe I'll run it up a few more times today = uncowled and if it works OK, try putting the cowl back on and see if I = can induce failure. Doesnt seem likely though that anything under cowl = could cause this sort of problem. =20 This may all have to wait until Tracy weighs in with his opinion. = I'm not inclined to make drastic changes until I hear from him. =20 Thanks, =20 Mike=20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C9FC82.C58F4A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
 
I was not clear in my description of = when the=20 problem seems to be occuring. So to clarify:
 
 In my normal tuning of the EC2 I = never mess=20 with the B controller. And have never noted a problem with corruption of = EC2=20 data. When I began flight testing back in February thats when the = problem began=20 to occur. After 3 instances I stopped flying.
 
 I decided it was about time to = resume flight=20 test last weekend after 4 months of mods and ground running without = any=20 problems. On saturday I flipped to the B controller just to see if it = was=20 OK and the engine died. This was not immediately preceeding a = planned=20 flight and I did not perform an ignition check. Over the course of the = weekend I=20 had a total of 4 cases of corrupt data. Three times there was an = undefined=20 problem on B that prevented the engine from running and one case where = the A=20 staging point got corrupted. The ONLY difference between these 4 cases = of=20 failure and the previous 4 months of failure free testing was the = selection of=20 the B controller. I never tested the ignition.
 
 These 4 failures occured over the = course of=20 approximately 25 engine starts and a total run time of about 2.5 hours = this past=20 weekend. For each engine start I toggled back and forth between A and B = multiple=20 times at various RPM settings. I estimate around 100 operations of the = A/B=20 switch resulting in 4 failures. The definition of = intermittent.
 
Does this clarify? BTW, I am going to = take your=20 advice and add a .01uf cap on the A/B input. What have I got to lose at = this=20 point?
 
Thanks,
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 = 8:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ignition = Check?? Re:=20 frustrating couple of days

Mike,=20

 

I could not = help but=20 wonder that when you were  unsuccessfully attempting to replicate = you B=20 controller problem by switching back and forth - did you also try your = ignition check while in B?   You mentioned that you normally = made an=20 ignition check with controller B on in preparation for flight.  = However,=20 you did not indicate that you were making such a check when you were = trying to=20 duplicate the problem.  

 

IF you did = not, then=20 I would suggest that you again try to duplicate the problem by = switching from=20 A to B, but include the ignition check while in B.  Do it a few = times and=20 see whether or not B gets corrupted.

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 = 10:59=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = frustrating=20 couple of days

 

Steve,

 

My staging point is set = at 18"=20 which ends up being around 3300RPM. So far I still havent been able to = prove=20 for certain that the corruption is linked to switching A > B, much = less=20 determine that it only happens above or below the staging=20 point.

 

All 4 of my injectors = are the same=20 - checked them all with an ohmmeter. They are all of the type that = does not=20 require an external resistor.

 

Mike

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Steven = Boese=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Friday,=20 July 03, 2009 9:13 AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of=20 days

 

Mike,

 

Is 3000 = rpm above=20 your staging point?  If the corruption of the controller only = happens=20 when changing from A to B above the staging point, check to see if = one or=20 both secondary injectors have lower resistance than=20 specified.

 

Steve=20 Boese

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:50 AM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = frustrating=20 couple of days

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for the offer = and the=20 input. Swapping my EC into your plane would be a desperation last = move due=20 to all of the hassles involved. And as you say would not necessarily = prove=20 anything.

 

I said it happens when = I'm=20 preparing to fly, but that isnt entirely accurate. It would be more = accurate=20 to say that in the past it has happened only when I have = switched=20 to the back-up controller which usually occurs in prep for = flight. This=20 past weekend I had fired it up and taxied down to EAA for lunch. = After lunch=20 I taxied back to my hangar and prior to shutting down I ran the = engine up to=20 about 3000 RPM and switched to the B controller. The engine died and = I had=20 to copy the A program to B to get it to run on B. Switching to B=20 was the only pre takeoff checklist item I=20 performed.

 

I think about the only = thing you=20 hit on here that might be related is heat. But hard to say without = more=20 instances of failure and a way to link cause and effect. On = saturday=20 when the engine quit on B the engine was completely cowled. On = sunday when I=20 had the second instance of an engine quitting on B, the upper cowl = was off=20 but the lower was on. When the staging point was lost the upper = was=20 off, lower on. Yesterday when the engine quit on the first attempt = at=20 switching to B the engine was completely uncowled. Maybe I'll run it = up a=20 few more times today uncowled and if it works OK, try putting the cowl back on and see = if I can=20 induce failure. Doesnt seem likely though that anything under cowl = could=20 cause this sort of problem.

 

This may all have to = wait until=20 Tracy weighs=20 in with his opinion. I'm not inclined to make drastic changes until = I hear=20 from him.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike 



__________ Information from ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714)=20 __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01C9FC82.C58F4A20--