X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3743393 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:37:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090703013658387.CSSQ19903@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2009 01:36:58 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: Fire Shield or Heat Sheild [FlyRotary] Re: P M Alternator Project Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:36:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C9FB5D.3ABFD2F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acn7W/zhhD02Rm8BTEStU9cuEGS2NwAIWhqQ In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090703013658387.CSSQ19903@cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C9FB5D.3ABFD2F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Todd, Certainly the horror of in-flight fire is something aviators have faced since WWI. I commend you on your effort to minimize any FWF combustion event (other than inside the engine). However, I must tell you I have some doubts about the protection you may think you are getting. This comes across to me more of a heat shield kit than a fire shield kit. Here are some of my reasons for why I believe you may not be getting the protection you think: While the ceramic blanket would probably withstand up to approx 2000F, I doubt seriously it would remain on the firewall for long in case of such a horrid event as fire. The aluminum facing and aluminum foil tape would quickly succumb to flames leaving the airflow to blow the ceramic material away from the firewall. I would feel much better if the facing was stainless steel as well as the tape holding it together. I know you can get stainless steel tape, but not certain about ceramic blanket faced with stainless. Now, I do believe that material can probably delay the worst and perhaps buy you some additional time - and it may be well worth it from that stand point -2- 3 minutes might make a difference. But, just felt I needed to point out that this "protection" may not be what you think. Best Regards Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Todd Bartrim Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: P M Alternator Project Hi Kelly; I've finished the first phase of getting the darned thing in there. Second phase will be actually running it to test it. I haven't yet bought a voltage regulator or even given any thought as to tying it into the electrical system, though I don't expect any problems here. I just finished writing a full report on how to do this installation, just need to proof read it and export it into a PDF or something small enough to post. It's currently in .odt and 24Mb. Maybe I'll see if I can just put it on the Rotary Wiki. You can probably expect it late tonight (pacific time). Second phase will likely be late summer or early fall, as I'm about to completely remove the entire FWF in order to install a ceramic blanket heat shield in one piece. Some of you may remember the Von Alexander story about an RV8 pilot that jumped to his death in order to avoid flames in the cockpit. Well my boy wants to go flying real bad, but that's something I always think about. So while it's not something I plan to happen, It's one more base I'd like to cover as best I can. I wish I'd done something like this while building initially, but there wasn't much available back then. A builder by the name of Vince Frazier has started FlyBoy accessories and offers a firewall insulation kit that is ideal and affordable. Ironically, Vince bought his initial tool set from Von Alexander's widow. So I've ordered this kit http://www.flyboyaccessories.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info &cPath=1&products_id=204 I will completely strip the firewall in order to install it in one piece with as few penetrations as possible. While it's off I plan to change some things on my cooling system, based on some of the recent successes I've seen here on the list in the last few years since I first completed my plane (it's never really completed). But even these projects will be delayed by other non-aircraft projects that I have to get done. Todd C-FSTB RV9 13B On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 17:52 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote: Todd, Just How is Your PM Alternator Project going ??.......We are all hopeful that it will lessen a possible alternator fail point by virtue of being direct drive and eliminating the drive belt...... -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C9FB5D.3ABFD2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Todd,

 

Certainly the horror  of = in-flight fire is something aviators have faced since WWI.  I commend you on = your effort to minimize any FWF combustion event (other than inside the engine).  However, I must tell you I have some doubts about the = protection you may think you are getting.  This comes across to me more of a = heat shield kit than a fire shield kit.  Here are some of my reasons for =  why I believe you may not be getting the protection you = think:

 

While the ceramic blanket would probably withstand up to approx 2000F, I doubt seriously it would remain on the firewall for long in case of such a = horrid event as fire.  The aluminum facing and aluminum foil tape would = quickly succumb to flames leaving the airflow to blow the ceramic material away from the firewall.  I would feel much better if the facing was stainless = steel as well as the tape holding it together.  I know you can get stainless = steel tape, but not certain about ceramic blanket faced with stainless.  =

 =

Now, I do believe that material can probably delay the worst and perhaps buy = you some additional time – and it may be well worth it from that stand = point –2- 3 minutes might make a difference.  But, just felt I needed to = point out that this “protection” may not be what you = think.

 =

Best Regards

 =

Ed

 

 =

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Todd Bartrim
Sent: Thursday, July 02, = 2009 5:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = P M Alternator Project

 

Hi Kelly;
    I've finished the first phase of getting the darned = thing in there. Second phase will be actually running it to test it. I haven't = yet bought a voltage regulator or even given any thought as to tying it into = the electrical system, though I don't expect any problems here. I just = finished writing a full report on how to do this installation, just need to proof = read it and export it into a PDF or something small enough to post. It's = currently in .odt and 24Mb. Maybe I'll see if I can just put it on the Rotary = Wiki. You can probably expect it late tonight (pacific time).
    Second phase will likely be late summer or early = fall, as I'm about to completely remove the entire FWF in order to install a = ceramic blanket heat shield in one piece. Some of you may remember the Von = Alexander story about an RV8 pilot that jumped to his death in order to avoid = flames in the cockpit. Well my boy wants to go flying real bad, but that's = something I always think about. So while it's not something I plan to happen, It's = one more base I'd like to cover as best I can. I wish I'd done something like = this while building initially, but there wasn't much available back then.
A builder by the name of Vince Frazier has started FlyBoy accessories = and offers a firewall insulation kit that is ideal and affordable. = Ironically, Vince bought his initial tool set from Von Alexander's widow. So I've = ordered this kit http://www.flyboyaccessorie= s.com/store/index.php?main_page=3Dproduct_info&cPath=3D1&products= _id=3D204
I will completely strip the firewall in order to install it in one piece = with as few penetrations as possible.
While it's off I plan to change some things on my cooling system, based = on some of the recent successes I've seen here on the list in the last few years = since I first completed my plane (it's never really completed). But even these projects will be delayed by other non-aircraft projects that I have to = get done.

Todd
C-FSTB
RV9 13B

On Thu, 2009-07-02 at 17:52 +0000, Kelly Troyer wrote:

 

Todd,

    Just How is Your PM Alternator Project = going ??.......We are all hopeful that it will lessen = a possible alternator fail point by virtue of being direct drive and eliminating the = drive belt......

 

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold




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