X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from n2.bullet.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([68.142.237.109] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3690749 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:44:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.237.109; envelope-from=casey.gary@yahoo.com Received: from [68.142.230.28] by n2.bullet.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2009 11:44:21 -0000 Received: from [216.252.110.140] by t1.bullet.re2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2009 11:44:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp210.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2009 11:44:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 776500.504.bm@omp210.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 97214 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2009 11:44:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1245671058; bh=D59yQuT/wmBQRNlg9NChpohA1hQ/A/lluihTYJMfD+k=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vJJBCgiakA9d8K9e32IFpPZF7udX9rE+bTyds+bU5lIZgf7Xd8NnShdYg+xT3NbDvvDZ2bW/vkqlrHYXzqUV7eXfLSGTUXSYc1RmSqsD2exrHrTETpn/bj3aSoVQuo6+HJAni+JxLOzSxllm/ZmrnscxnLg/eLPBt/WnOUC1dZU= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=a78+pwPPCmG4558PHNovW+yoocjcZoVa5GPj3KB8uiihIGOR8GSqHAM8pWnmC2dLcv5mcxkb0hx8Zy9u+KhZpOy5/ckaE6IszaGbpd9gMRbNmENirIVG9mn4tg6+rSyMLSCAAvUM/sBOQq2sYD36JGpknMLewfIOi/Pm7TdT6VI=; Message-ID: <573510.96397.qm@web57508.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 42US_I4VM1nTMIkOMzBb9M4Ub0x1TfLOjGxfpc7xPkAYJInkUM6E2UrOpHS0zj.QAK83job1G1flgB6xh0.m1AVtGAjdATm_sBfe0rjnuz4HUF0uu27sRhuYOigJVPsGvZntbHo0kuaoKjXLoSD9uNm8KRtLIL_dIcKkghhJO9gD.aRL_0W.OGYkvoaRLfFZH2_wBemQXUxyu1yXuNcmkKEtLa_hGqYPmLddvgWWnb6IWKFmfauv0fv32jBkG5KV7Xd1TNgDdez64FlAV1dNRN.i Received: from [97.122.159.245] by web57508.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 2009 04:44:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1277.43 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 References: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 04:44:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Gary Casey Subject: Re: Duty Cycle for Injectors To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-823564383-1245671055=:96397" --0-823564383-1245671055=:96397 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a little historical anecdote:=A0 When we at Bendix were developing the= very first US production=A0fuel injection system (remember the Cosworth Ve= ga?) we sized the injectors for about 80% on-time at maximum manifold press= ure, minimum air temperature and full power.=A0 This is a compromise, of co= urse - a low-flow injector is desireable to have the most accuracy at idle = when the pulse width is very short.=A0 But if the injector approaches 100%,= there will be a=A0pulse width less than 100%=A0when the injector will stay= fully open, creating a step in fuel flow.=A0 This=A0is a normal=A0occurenc= e=A0during cold engine operation when the enrichment algorithm commands mor= e flow, but it turns out that a max engine speed there is little or no need= for cold enrichment regardless of temperature, so the effect is pretty muc= h ignored.=A0 The idea of sizing the injectors for 80% duty cycle had nothi= ng to do with racing applications, but it applies there, too.=A0 The obviou= s problem encountered when undersizing the injectors is that once 100 duty c= ycle is reached the flow is limited - the engine will lean out if the rpm o= r air flow goes higher.=A0 Not a good thing.=0A=0AInceidentally, there is n= o concern for injector relaibility or durability.=A0 It is a simple solenoi= d valve and running at 100% duty cycle would theoretically make it last lon= ger - it is the total number of open-close cycles that wears the injector.= =A0 As injectors wear the flow generally increases and most modern injector= s are rated for a billion cycles with a flow increase of less than 3%.=A0 T= he coil is cooled by the fuel itself, so overheating is not a concern.=0A= =0AGary Casey=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A-----Inline = Message Follows-----=0A=0A=0AEd,=0AI remember reading that the 80% duty cyc= le rule (of thumb)was originally developed for the racing industry.=0A=A0= =0AGiven that probably 100% will never be reached in the day to day vehicle= use -=A0the 80 % duty cycle=A0most probably doesn't apply for sizing. Howe= ver bigger injectors are standard in vehicles where the RPM limit is much h= igher than what we may experience in our Aviation application, even if for = only short periods of time.=0A=A0=0AGiven that our RPM is on the high end f= or climb and take-off, but not as high as it could be (not max RPM), and cr= uise is for the most part only 6,000 rpm, do we really have to held to the = 80% DC rule, where perhaps 90% DC=A0(for short periods of time) may well gi= ve sufficient safety margin to maintain longevity of the injectors.=0A=A0= =0ANot that there is a major benefit in having borderline injector duty cyc= le, as you so rightly pointed out - =A0it's just that it would be interesti= ng to know!=0AGeorge (down under)=0A=0A=0A --0-823564383-1245671055=:96397 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just a little historical anecdote:  When we at Be= ndix were developing the very first US production fuel injection syste= m (remember the Cosworth Vega?) we sized the injectors for about 80% on-tim= e at maximum manifold pressure, minimum air temperature and full power.&nbs= p; This is a compromise, of course - a low-flow injector is desireable to h= ave the most accuracy at idle when the pulse width is very short.  But= if the injector approaches 100%, there will be a pulse width less tha= n 100% when the injector will stay fully open, creating a step in fuel= flow.  This is a normal occurence during cold engine o= peration when the enrichment algorithm commands more flow, but it turns out= that a max engine speed there is little or no need for cold enrichment regardless of temperature, so the effect is pretty much ignored.  The= idea of sizing the injectors for 80% duty cycle had nothing to do with rac= ing applications, but it applies there, too.  The obvious problem enco= untered when undersizing the injectors is that once 100 duty cycle is reach= ed the flow is limited - the engine will lean out if the rpm or air flow go= es higher.  Not a good thing.
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Inceide= ntally, there is no concern for injector relaibility or durability.  I= t is a simple solenoid valve and running at 100% duty cycle would theoretic= ally make it last longer - it is the total number of open-close cycles that= wears the injector.  As injectors wear the flow generally increases a= nd most modern injectors are rated for a billion cycles with a flow increas= e of less than 3%.  The coil is cooled by the fuel itself, so overheat= ing is not a concern.
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Gary Casey
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=0A=0A=0A<= DIV>Ed,
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I remember reading that the 80% duty cycle rule (of thumb)was orig= inally developed for the racing industry.
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Given= that probably 100% will never be reached in the day to day vehicle use -&n= bsp;the 80 % duty cycle most probably doesn't apply for sizing. Howeve= r bigger injectors are standard in vehicles where the RPM limit is much hig= her than what we may experience in our Aviation application, even if for on= ly short periods of time.
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Given that our RPM is= on the high end for climb and take-off, but not as high as it could be (no= t max RPM), and cruise is for the most part only 6,000 rpm, do we really ha= ve to held to the 80% DC rule, where perhaps 90% DC (for short periods= of time) may well give sufficient safety margin to maintain longevity of t= he injectors.
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Not that there is a major benefit= in having borderline injector duty cycle, as you so rightly pointed out - =  it's just that it would be interes= ting to know!
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George (down = under)

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