X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3688274 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:58:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.51; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-146-126-115.mco.bellsouth.net[72.146.126.115]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20090619145817H01000tbl1e>; Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:58:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [72.146.126.115] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full power Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:58:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3DE2F3AF81F64F89A2EBCBBEDEEB874B@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C9F0CC.DBB3FB50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acnw65QhR2EvdRxFS6CZ7pkTSGo27gAAfnog X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C9F0CC.DBB3FB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, If you happen to be using the 6 port and plan to use only 4 of the yellow injectors, they are only good for between 173 and 197 HP at 80% duty cycle and BSFC of .5. You would have to use all 6 to realize that higher HP that they are supposed to make. I am thinking that they are sized small in the car because they don't expect you to be at WOT for long in the car and they will have a chance to cool down. In our case they will be at WOT for hours and could overheat if they were at a high duty cycle. Thoughts?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:38 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full power Bryan, Well, ain't that interesting! That indicates that the injectors (according to calculators I found on the web) will support between 183 and 206 HP with a duty cycle of 80% and an BSFC of .5. So much for all these wild guesses we have been making about how much power we will get with the Renesis. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full power Bill, According to the manual, the flow rates are: Red 69-78 ccm/15s Blue 118-133 Yellow 89-101 I'm assuming the 15s means 15 seconds. So, multiply these values by 4. Bryan _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:44 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full power What is the actual size of the stock Renesis injectors? I was under the understanding that the red primary was 295 ccm and the blue secondary was 610 ccm. I heard that the yellow injectors from the hi power 6 port were a different size, but have never heard what size they were supposed to be. Don, did you say you had your injectors cleaned and flowed? What did they flow? Where can this information be found? Is is listed in a Mazda book somewhere? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full power Mode 6 would handle it but that is for normal staging only. The 'injector set disabled' is a special case In which the EC2/3 does not know which set has been disabled and therefore can't know exactly what to do. It's up to the pilot to make the appropriate response on the mixture knob if the injectors are not the same size. Tracy On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al Gietzen wrote: When you switch the primary injectors off and secondary injectors on - the EC2 is still providing the same pulse duration (assuming engine manifold pressure, etc are the same) for the almost twice as large secondary injectors as it did for the smaller primary injectors. Ergo, you are feeding the engine almost twice the fuel (for the same engine conditions) as you did when on the primary injectors. The engine is choking on too much fuel. Unless, of course, you have made the mode 6 adjustment to compensate for the difference in the flow rates - or will mode 6 not handle such a big differential. Al G ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C9F0CC.DBB3FB50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh,

If you happen to be using the 6 port and plan to use only 4 of = the yellow injectors, they are only good for between 173 and 197 HP at 80% = duty cycle and BSFC of .5.  You would have to use all 6 to realize that = higher HP that they are supposed to make.

I am thinking that they are sized small in the car because they = don’t expect you to be at WOT for long in the car and they will have a chance = to cool down.  In our case they will be at WOT for hours and could overheat = if they were at a high duty cycle.

Thoughts??

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Friday, June 19, = 2009 10:38 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full = power

Bryan,

Well, ain’t that interesting!

That indicates that the injectors (according to calculators I = found on the web) will support between 183 and 206 HP with a duty cycle of 80% = and an BSFC of .5.

So much for all these wild guesses we have been making about how = much power we will get with the Renesis.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, June 19, = 2009 10:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full = power

Bill,

According to the manual, the flow = rates are:

Red 69-78 = ccm/15s

Blue =  118-133

Yellow =  89-101

 

I’m assuming the 15s means 15 seconds.  So, multiply these values by = 4.

Bryan

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Friday, June 19, = 2009 9:44 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full = power

 

What is the actual size of the stock Renesis injectors?  I = was under the understanding that the red primary was 295 ccm and the blue = secondary was 610 ccm.  I heard that the yellow injectors from the hi power 6 = port were a different size, but have never heard what size they were supposed = to be.

Don, did you say you had your injectors cleaned and = flowed?  What did they flow? 

Where can this information be found? Is is listed in a = Mazda book somewhere?

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Friday, June 19, = 2009 9:24 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 295cc vs 495 cc was [FlyRotary] responses to responses, not developing full = power

Mode 6 would = handle it but that is for normal staging only.  The 'injector set  disabled'  is a special case In which the EC2/3 does not know which = set has been disabled and therefore can't know exactly what to do.  = It's up to the pilot to make the appropriate response on the mixture knob if the = injectors are not the same size.

Tracy

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> = wrote:

When you switch the primary injectors off and = secondary

injectors on - the EC2 is still providing the same pulse duration = (assuming

engine manifold pressure, etc are the same) for the almost twice as = large

secondary injectors as it did for the smaller primary injectors. Ergo, = you

are feeding the engine almost twice the fuel (for the same = engine

conditions) as you did when on the primary injectors.  The engine is = choking

on too much fuel. 

 

Unless, of course, you have made the = mode 6 adjustment to compensate for the difference in the flow rates – or = will mode 6 not handle such a big differential.

 

Al G

 

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C9F0CC.DBB3FB50--