X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.qnsi.net ([66.219.56.248] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3592894 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:51:01 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.248; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C9C36A.86EF06B2" Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:51:04 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F30D851D@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue Thread-Index: AcnDZY4RBlFT+Xo7S0CSSfXKKNPOfgAA3jSA References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9C36A.86EF06B2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, =20 May I ask how you collected the data? I have the data logger option with the EM3 but no information on what it collects. Thanks, Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:13 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue Attached is plot of data collected from my EC2 during a throttle up-throttle down sequence that I sent to Tracy in mid March. The color bars at the bottom show where the actual and expected (from the operators manual) table addresses for the conditions at that time in the run aren't consistent. The mismatch in the color bars at the lower RPM and MP show areas that I questioned. Higher MP than 23" are not accessible to me at this elevation since my engine is normally aspirated, but the higher MP regions seem to behave as described in the manual. =20 As unkind as it is, I am glad to see that I am not the only one seeing this behavior. I'm inclined to stop tearing up my installation trying to find a problem that doesn't exist. Apparently the EC2 is just doing things we didn't expect. =20 Steve Boese RV6A, 13B NA, EC2, RD1A =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:01 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue =20 I did hear from Tracy and he agrees I should not be seeing address 37 under this condition. Will work on it again next week after SNF. =20 Bobby =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:46 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue Bobby,=20 =20 You may want to post your message on the EC-2/EM-2 list also. =20 Mark On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: Bill, =20 I tested moving the rpm / map threshold (mode 7A) from 2500 to 3000,4000,2000 and 1200. I was still seeing a problem in this address range. Not sure it was the same exact problem but same symptoms. Tune it richer one time and then next time it need to be leaned. With the MAP at 12.5 and RPM at 2270 I would expect to using address 26 or 27 not 37. Address range 32-63 are for above 13" MAP and rpm between 2500 and 3800. 12.5" and 2270 rpm does not meet that condition. But it is above 10" MAP. Is that a third condition? =20 I had the same experience as you reported with mixture address gaps when tuning. I skip from about 42 to 72 when slowly advancing the throttle one address at a time. Advance the throttle quickly and the engine would miss and cough. I set the skipped address range back to near 0 and can advance the throttle quickly with little hesitation. I think it will need to be fine tuned in flight. =20 =20 Bobby =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Schertz Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:40 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue Bobby, On my EC-2, the map table changes from low table to high table at 2400 rpm. I don't have a super charger, and my EC-2 may not be the same model as yours, as Tracy keeps making changes/improvements. =20 You are seeing one reading at 3010 rpm and another at 2270, these span the area where mine (according to manual) switches between low and high map tables. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:20 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 address range issue =20 I sent an email to Tracy but he's at SNF this week and not sure he will see it until next week. Though I would run this by the group. =20 Mixture Correction Table address 32-41 are giving me problems. Here is an example of what I am seeing. =20 Address 37 , MAP 12.1, RPM 3010, Val +26, O2- 14.5 Tuned perfect. Move the throttle up and down the map table and engine starts to run poor in the address range. Adjust throttle back to Address 37 and things have changed. Address 37, MAP 12.5, RPM 2270, VAL +26, O2- 12.5 Tuned rich. =20 I have tuned this range a dozen or more times. It also happens to be right in my taxi range.=20 =20 Ground run settings. =20 Prop in fixed mode at high rpm setting. Supercharger 1" bypass open so no air is being compressed in manifold. Prop and supercharger settings do not seem to make any difference with this problem. I played around with mode 7A changing the rpm vs manifold reference points but did not seem to make a difference. =20 I can idle at 10" MAP and 1200 rpm. =20 =20 =20 Any ideas? =20 Bobby Hughes (last item before flight) =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9C36A.86EF06B2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
 
May I ask how you collected the data?  I = have the data=20 logger option with the EM3 but no information on what it = collects.  =20 Thanks, Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = sboese
Sent:=20 Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range=20 issue

Attached is = plot of=20 data collected from my EC2 during a throttle up-throttle down sequence = that I=20 sent to Tracy in mid March.  The color bars at the bottom show = where the=20 actual and expected (from the operators manual) table addresses for the=20 conditions at that time in the run aren’t consistent.  The = mismatch in the=20 color bars at the lower RPM and MP show areas that I questioned.  = Higher MP=20 than 23” are not accessible to me at this elevation since my = engine is normally=20 aspirated, but the higher MP regions seem to behave as described in the=20 manual.

 

As unkind as = it is, I=20 am glad to see that I am not the only one seeing this behavior.  = I’m=20 inclined to stop tearing up my installation trying to find a problem = that=20 doesn’t exist.  Apparently the EC2 is just doing things we = didn’t=20 expect.

 

 Steve=20 Boese

RV6A, 13B NA, = EC2,=20 RD1A

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. = Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 = 9:01=20 AM
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: EC2 address range issue

 

I did hear=20 from Tracy and he agrees I should not be seeing address 37 under this = condition.=20 Will work on it again next week after SNF.

 

Bobby

 

 

 

From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark = Steitle
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 = 7:46=20 AM
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: EC2 address range issue

Bobby,

 

You may want to post your = message on the=20 EC-2/EM-2 list also. 

Mark

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:06 = AM, Bobby J.=20 Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net>=20 wrote:

Bill,

 

I tested=20 moving the rpm / map threshold (mode 7A) from 2500 to 3000,4000,2000 and = 1200. I=20 was still seeing a problem in this address range. Not sure it was the = same exact=20 problem but same symptoms. Tune it richer one time and then next time it = need to=20 be leaned. With the MAP at 12.5 and RPM at 2270 I would expect to using = address=20 26 or 27 not 37. Address range 32-63 are for above 13" MAP and rpm = between 2500=20 and 3800. 12.5" and 2270 rpm does not meet that condition. But it is = above 10"=20 MAP. Is that a third condition?

 

I had the=20 same experience as you reported with mixture address gaps when tuning. I = skip=20 from about 42 to 72 when slowly advancing the throttle one address at a = time.=20 Advance the throttle quickly and the engine would miss and cough. I set=20 the skipped address range back to near 0 and can advance the = throttle=20 quickly with little hesitation. I think it will need to be fine tuned in = flight.

 

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill = Schertz
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 = 8:40 PM=20


To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 address range issue

Bobby,

On my EC-2, the map table = changes=20 from low table to high table at 2400 rpm. I don't have a super charger, = and my=20 EC-2 may not be the same model as yours, as Tracy keeps making=20 changes/improvements.

 

You are seeing one reading = at 3010=20 rpm and another at 2270, these span the area where mine (according to = manual)=20 switches between low and high map tables.

Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser=20 #4045
N343BS

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Bobby J.=20 Hughes

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Sent: Tuesday,=20 April 21, 2009 8:20 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] EC2 address range issue

 

I sent an email to Tracy = but he's=20 at SNF this week and not sure he will see it until next week. = Though I=20 would run this by the group.

 

Mixture Correction Table = address=20 32-41 are giving me problems. Here is an example of what I am=20 seeing.

 

Address 37 , MAP = 12.1, RPM=20 3010, Val +26, O2- 14.5  Tuned perfect. Move the throttle up and = down the=20 map table and engine starts to run poor in the address range. Adjust = throttle=20 back to Address 37 and things have changed.

Address 37,  MAP = 12.5, RPM=20 2270, VAL +26, O2- 12.5  Tuned rich.

 

I have tuned this range = a dozen or=20 more times. It also happens to be right in my taxi range.=20

 

Ground run=20 settings.

 

Prop in fixed mode at = high rpm=20 setting.

Supercharger 1" bypass=20 open so no air is being compressed in=20 manifold.

Prop and supercharger = settings do=20 not seem to make any difference with this = problem.

I played around with = mode 7A=20 changing the rpm vs manifold reference points but did not seem to make = a=20 difference.

 

I can idle at 10" MAP = and 1200=20 rpm.

 

 

 

Any = ideas?

 

Bobby=20 Hughes

(last item before=20 flight)

 

=

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C9C36A.86EF06B2--