X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.241.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3586638 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:51:12 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.40; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090420035036.IFBF22254.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:50:36 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id hfqY1b0081CvZmk04fqap6; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:50:34 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=5Tx3537q5ikv4dqAe5YA:9 a=Xj7WxaAboke9eGZJazcA:7 a=pnpHinaWuq1f-LymOg78eaAe0ygA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=7Lr-Yxpb3jnqjDHl:21 a=qiAwznVDoCkWE3ft:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=WgYRGgkKnWAHYiEt85wA:9 a=oOPjkwBw__kJbTKtlbQA:7 a=dx2fjoGWX488FX_zmv6AsPr_KxsA:4 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <27CA9D24AD124159B9215B3A70A84FEF@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced landings Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:50:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9C130.7AD6AC90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9C130.7AD6AC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I got my staging issues under control by following others advice and = moving the staging point up in the RPM range. Unfortunately I have had two random cases of the EC2 loosing pieces of = its non-volatile memory. The last case was the worst - the entire B = program appears to have been lost. It would not run at any throttle = setting on B. Fortunately I found this on the ground during a preflight = runup. Copying A to B restored the program and the engine runs fine. I'd = sure like to find something conclusive to indicate what happened, but = this was 2 random events in over 20 hours of engine running and I have = no idea what triggered it. I've exchanged emails with Tracy and he says = its likely a grounding issue. So I've spend the last month going through = all of my wiring looking for some sort of problem. Havent found anything = on the ground side. As mentioned previously I do have a little hum noticeable in the = headset when the alternator is energized. I was preparing to look into = this - dug out the O'scope and everything - when the stupid fuel tanks = (both) decided to start leaking 1 1/2 years after I first put fuel in = them. Just about have the leaks resolved and time to get back on the = electrical. If I can get rid of the hum then I'll probably still be = looking at a couple of hours of ground running before I'm willing to fly = it again. Intermittant problems suck. Thing is you never really know if whatever = caused it has somehow been fixed unless you actually find an obvious = smoking gun. Not clear to me that I am going to find that. I've been hesitant to post about this unless/until I had something = conclusive. Didnt want anyone to leap to the conclusion that there is an = EC2 issue. I assume that whatever it is, its particular to my install. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:01 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced landings Mike, What kinds of problems are you having? Looking back over your posts, = it looks like you were having problems with the staging set right over = your approach power setting. What else is happening and have you moved = the staging yet? Bill B=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced landings Al, =20 OK, I can accept that. It may seem from some of my recent posts that = I'm down on the rotary - not the case. I just want to make sure that we = paint a fair picture which is frequently not the case on an enthusiasts = website. =20 I'm probably a little negatively biased right now having done my = first couple of flights, come across a couple of problems that are = unresolved, and am currently grounded. I really want to fly this thing = again but havent had as much time as I would like to fix the problems = and get it airworthy again. =20 Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced landings =20 Al, =20 I understand and agree with what you are saying regarding the = experimental nature of these one off installations. But if you dont = compare them to the norm, what do you compare them to? I guarantee you = that is what the LyCont flyers are comparing them to Mike; =20 Sorry I wasn't clear - I meant it wasn't a fair comparison during = the first couple hundred hours, while we are still in the debugging = phase. After tha, go ahead and compare. If we can get to some = comparable reliability level in that short a time, compared to their = 100's of thousands of hours, we're really on to something. =20 I'm actually not an avid proponent of alternative engines. I just = happened to have chosen that route, and it's been a rewarding challenge; = and working well. =20 Al G =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C9C130.7AD6AC90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
 I got my staging issues under = control by=20 following others advice and moving the staging point up in the RPM=20 range.
 
 Unfortunately I have had = two random=20 cases of the EC2 loosing pieces of its non-volatile memory. The last = case was=20 the worst - the entire B program appears to have been lost. It would not = run at=20 any throttle setting on B. Fortunately I found this on the ground during = a=20 preflight runup. Copying A to B restored the program and the engine runs = fine. I'd sure like to find something conclusive to indicate what = happened,=20 but this was 2 random events in over 20 hours of engine running and I = have no=20 idea what triggered it. I've exchanged emails with Tracy and he = says its=20 likely a grounding issue. So I've spend the last month going through all = of my=20 wiring looking for some sort of problem. Havent found anything on the = ground=20 side.
 
 As mentioned previously I do have = a little=20 hum noticeable in the headset when the alternator is energized. I was = preparing=20 to look into this - dug out the O'scope and everything - when the = stupid=20 fuel tanks (both) decided to start leaking  1 1/2 years after I = first put=20 fuel in them. Just about have the leaks resolved and time to get back on = the=20 electrical. If I can get rid of the hum then I'll probably still be = looking at a=20 couple of hours of ground running before I'm willing to fly it=20 again.
 
 Intermittant problems suck. Thing = is you=20 never really know if whatever caused it has somehow been fixed unless = you=20 actually find an obvious smoking gun. Not clear to me that I am going to = find=20 that.
 
 I've been hesitant to post about = this=20 unless/until I had something conclusive. Didnt want anyone to leap to = the=20 conclusion that there is an EC2 issue. I assume that whatever it is, its = particular to my install.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 = 11:01=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced = landings

Mike,

What kinds of problems are you having?  = Looking=20 back over your posts, it looks like you were having problems with the = staging=20 set right over your approach power setting.  What else is = happening and=20 have you moved the staging yet?

Bill = B 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 = 11:24=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Forced = landings

Al,

 

 OK, I can accept = that. It=20 may seem from some of my recent posts that I'm  down on the = rotary - not=20 the case. I just want to make sure that we paint a fair picture which = is=20 frequently not the case on an enthusiasts=20 website.

 

 I'm probably a = little=20 negatively biased right now having done my first couple of flights, = come=20 across a couple of problems that are unresolved, and am currently = grounded. I=20 really want to fly this thing again but havent had as much time as I = would=20 like to fix the problems and get it airworthy=20 again.

 

Mike=20 Wills

RV-4=20 N144MW

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Al = Gietzen=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:08 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Forced landings

 

Al,

 

 I understand and = agree=20 with what you are saying regarding the experimental nature of these = one off=20 installations. But if you dont compare them to the norm, what do you = compare=20 them to? I guarantee you that is what the LyCont flyers are = comparing them=20 to

Mike;

 

Sorry I = wasn=92t=20 clear =96 I meant it wasn=92t a fair comparison during the first = couple hundred=20 hours, while we are still in the debugging phase. After tha, go = ahead and=20 compare.  If we can get to some comparable reliability level in = that=20 short a time, compared to their 100=92s of thousands of hours, = we=92re really on=20 to something.

 

I=92m = actually not=20 an avid proponent of alternative engines.  I just happened to = have=20 chosen that route, and it=92s been a rewarding challenge; and = working=20 well.

 

Al=20 G

 

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