X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3545707 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:51:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.104; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-146-126-109.mco.bellsouth.net[72.146.126.109]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20090312225023H0400afvbfe>; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:50:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [72.146.126.109] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:50:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3AD64D2DBFCD4C5B9820227ADA59BDA8@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C9A343.683993F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcmjNVypwg3B1fu1Qj+xBNP/NUT30wAL2rhw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C9A343.683993F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why can't this flat section be reshaped into an airfoil? Could IVO do it.. Or a builder? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:09 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop Mike, Have been following this with much interest...........If you may recall I also have the "IVO" for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we discussed how to reduce or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless root section of the blades........I had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 inch diameter "Mustang II" spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your "RV4"...........I have spent the last 2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my "DELTA" and have not been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I would be very interested to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation that may have used a large diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the root section of the blades..... The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of this virtually flat root section........ If the airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of this root section will be covered if I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" : -------------- > John, > > I looked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But was scared > off by a number of things: > > 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a delaminated trailing edge on the flight > line at Copperstate fly-in. > 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO had the > prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing that totaled the > plane. > 3) Tracy's experience re reduced performance at speed. > 4) The issues experienced by Lyc powered users. > > Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to something going through the prop with the > engine running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves Tracy's > experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that you fly a > pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not have the prop root > issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than stock spinner > and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm not > sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be pretty close > though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Mike Wills > RV-4 N144MW > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Slade" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop > > > > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell me more. > > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of equipment. > > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the hub. > > Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the > > blades equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems > > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by > > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomings. The IVO > > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less "pulsy" > > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly taken any > > extra torque. > > > > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performance > > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on full fine > > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power on take > > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've had 180 kts > > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and without ever going > > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back on > > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much easier to land > > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly well, even > > at idle. > > > > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO (Franklin 6) > > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use. > > > > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very helpful. > > > > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better recommendation could > > you want? :) > > > > Regards, > > John Slade > > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM > > 98.1 Hrs. > > > > Mike Wills wrote: > >> > >> > >> Mike Wills > >> RV-4 N144MW > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade" > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing > >> > >> > >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. I'm very > >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop thats a > >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well. > >>> John > >>> > >>> Tracy Crook wrote: > >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both worlds but > >>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>> Archive and UnSub: > >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive and UnSub: > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >> > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C9A343.683993F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Why can’t this flat section be reshaped into an = airfoil?  Could IVO do it.. Or a builder?

 

Bill B 

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Thursday, March 12, = 2009 1:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO = Prop

Mike,

  Have been following this with much interest...........If = you may recall I also have the "IVO"

for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) = we discussed how to reduce

or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless = root section of the blades........I

had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 = inch diameter "Mustang II"

spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your "RV4"...........I have spent the = last

2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my "DELTA" and have not

been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I would be very = interested

to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO = installation that may have used a large

diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the = root section of the blades.....

 

 The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of = this virtually flat root section........ If  = the

airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of = this root section will be covered if

I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW  

 

   

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold


 

-------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>: --------------


> John,
>
> I looked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But was = scared
> off by a number of things:
>
> 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a delaminated trailing edge on the = flight
> line at Copperstate fly-in.
> 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO = had the
> prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing that = totaled the
> plane.
> 3) Tracy's experience re reduced performance at speed.
> 4) The issues experienced by Lyc powered users.
>
> Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to something going through the = prop with the
> engine running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves = Tracy's
> experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that you = fly a
> pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not have the = prop root
> issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than stock spinner
> and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm not
> sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be = pretty close
> though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 N144MW
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Slade"
> To: "Rotary = motors in aircraft"
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM =
> Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop
>
>
> > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. = Tell me more.
> > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of equipment.
> > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the = hub.
> > Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus = twists the
> > blades equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems
> > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been = solved by
> > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with = Lycomings. The IVO
> > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less = "pulsy"
> > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly = taken any
> > extra torque.
> >
> > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performance
> > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO = on full fine
> > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power = on take
> > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with the = IVO, but I've had 180 kts
> > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and = without ever going
> > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that = throttled back on
> > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much = easier to land
> > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly = well, even
> > at idle.
> >
> > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO = (Franklin 6)
> > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.
> >
> > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very = helpful.
> >
> > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better = recommendation could
> > you want? :)
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Slade
> > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM
> > 98.1 Hrs.
> >
> > Mike Wills wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Wills
> >> RV-4 N144MW
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade" =
> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 = 10:30 AM
> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing
> >>
> >>
> >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around = $2350. I'm very
> >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 = fixed pitch wood prop thats a
> >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well. =
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Tracy Crook wrote:
> >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of = both worlds but
> >>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of = gas.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>> Archive and UnSub:
> >>> = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >> Archive and UnSub:
> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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