X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from defout.telus.net ([204.209.205.13] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3522857 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:25:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.209.205.13; envelope-from=tomk@telus.net Received: from priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net ([204.209.205.55]) by priv-edmwes25.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20090302032439.UJJZ3157.priv-edmwes25.telusplanet.net@priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net> for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:24:39 -0700 Received: from familyroom (d216-232-151-156.bchsia.telus.net [216.232.151.156]) by priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net (BorderWare Security Platform) with SMTP id 206937363029F9F8 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2009 20:24:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: From: "tom koftinoff" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Still low oil pressure Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:24:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C99AA3.5CB089B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C99AA3.5CB089B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Chris/Tracy, This is probably not the solution for the problem, but I had a similar = situation with my second rebuild for my RX-7 car. I didn't experience = it with my first aircraft 13B rotary engine rebuild. During my second = rebuild, when I was installing the oil pump chain and sprocket assembly, = the KEY that aligns the oil pump sprocket was not properly installed. I = was in a hurry to install the KEY, and I never positioned it properly as = I slipped the oil pump chain and sprocket assembly. After installing = the front cover, I found the KEY laying on the ground. If I had = assembled the engine that way, I wouldn't have had very much oil = pressure ( or possibly none at all). That KEY appears simple to = install, but I found it a bit tricky. Just my two cents. Tom ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Still low oil pressure Really hard to draw any conclusions without knowing what 'a little = flow' is. At cranking speed it should be enough to make a good sized = puddle on the floor in 3 - 5 seconds. Does your first paragraph imply = that there was more oil flow before the filter than after it? If true, = that is suspicious. =20 If you still suspect priming as the problem, have you tried to force = some heavy weight oil (40 - 50 wt) back toward the pump with air = pressure? If there is any significant oil flow through the pump, it = ought to prime immediately unless it is a totally clapped out pump. BTW, are you sure your oil pressure reading was accurate and not just = an instrument problem? Tracy On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:58 PM, The Mallorys = wrote: No luck today. I filled the line out of the engine just after the pump, then = cranked it over with the starter. I did get a little flow, but not very = much. I reconnected the hose, and added components as I went, checking = that I had oil flow after each. Still had flow after the cooler and = just barely a trickle after the filter, where the oil should go back = into the engine. From this I am thinking either I am not picking up = enough oil, or the pump isn=92t pumping enough oil. The only way I can think to eliminate the oil pickup as a problem is = to drop the pan, and feed directly into the engine from a container. = This will be a little bit of a pain, as I will have to remove the = radiator, drain the pan, then remove it. I don=92t know how to check the pump. Any ideas or suggestions? Is = there a way to check it without removing the rear eccentric shaft bolt? = It was a royal pain to remove last time, and I really don=92t want to = have to remove it again if there is another way to check that the pump = is pumping. I am not using the apex seal oil pump. All I did was cap off the = hole on the outside of the block, and left all the internal parts. I = don=92t think this should make a difference, but thought I would mention = it in case. Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1978 - Release Date: = 03/01/09 07:04:00 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C99AA3.5CB089B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Chris/Tracy,
 
This is probably not the=20 solution for the problem, but I had a similar situation with = my second=20 rebuild for my RX-7 car.  I didn't experience it with my first = aircraft 13B=20 rotary engine rebuild.   During my second rebuild, when I was=20 installing the oil pump chain and sprocket assembly, the KEY that = aligns=20 the oil pump sprocket was not properly installed.  I was in a = hurry to=20 install the KEY, and I never positioned it properly as I slipped the oil = pump=20 chain and sprocket assembly.   After installing the front = cover, I=20 found the KEY laying on the ground.   If I had=20 assembled the engine that way, I wouldn't have had very much oil = pressure ( or=20 possibly none at all).   That KEY appears simple to = install, but=20 I found it a bit tricky.
 
Just my two cents.
 
Tom
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 = 6:46=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Still = low oil=20 pressure

Really hard to draw any conclusions without knowing = what 'a=20 little flow' is.   At cranking speed it should be enough to = make a=20 good sized puddle on the floor  in 3 - 5 seconds.  Does your = first=20 paragraph imply that there was more oil flow before the filter than = after=20 it?  If true, that is suspicious. 

If you still = suspect=20 priming as the problem, have you tried to force some heavy weight oil = (40 - 50=20 wt) back toward the pump with air pressure?  If there is any = significant=20 oil flow through the pump, it ought to prime immediately unless it is = a=20 totally clapped out pump.

BTW, are you sure your oil pressure = reading=20 was accurate  and not just an instrument = problem?

Tracy

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:58 PM, The Mallorys = <candtmallory@cebridge.net&g= t;=20 wrote:

No luck today.

 

I filled the line out of the engine just after the pump, then = cranked it=20 over with the starter.  I did get a little flow, but not very=20 much.  I reconnected the hose, and added components as I went, = checking=20 that I had oil flow after each.  Still had flow after the = cooler and=20 just barely a trickle after the filter, where the oil should go back = into=20 the engine.  From this I am thinking either I am not picking up = enough=20 oil, or the pump isn=92t pumping enough oil.

 

The only way I can think to eliminate the oil pickup as a problem = is to=20 drop the pan, and feed directly into the engine from a = container.  This=20 will be a little bit of a pain, as I will have to remove the = radiator, drain=20 the pan, then remove it.

 

I don=92t know how to check the pump.  Any ideas or = suggestions? =20 Is there a way to check it without removing the rear eccentric shaft = bolt?  It was a royal pain to remove last time, and I really = don=92t want=20 to have to remove it again if there is another way to check that the = pump is=20 pumping.

 

I am not using the apex seal oil pump.  All I did was cap = off the=20 hole on the outside of the block, and left all the internal = parts.  I=20 don=92t think this should make a difference, but thought I would = mention it in=20 case.

 

Chris



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1978 - = Release=20 Date: 03/01/09 07:04:00
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