X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3518741 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:59:48 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090227035912.GDRI15318.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:59:12 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id LrzA1b00M1CvZmk04rzCCR; Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:59:12 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=8gwM5K-iQU-WReVQkKEA:9 a=eypnZSPuNvVmKCnKIaEA:7 a=JmtV6itGYfOSpcQAOQTNzDQpykkA:4 a=5FtdkfQUxfIA:10 a=FyJgSzqwUpFzKDQoWfsA:9 a=lB-XARDt7lbBH00kBasA:7 a=DwqjTYm8DhqNEViL7xM28sN6NnIA:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <006801c9988f$c581c050$38556944@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: ethanol Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:59:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0065_01C9984C.B70AE210" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C9984C.B70AE210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well things seem a little slow today so how about re-opening a can of = worms? We had a brief discussion a while back regarding ethanol in fuel. = Frankly at the time I didnt know much about the subject but have been = reading a little since I'm burning auto fuel. At the time I think it was Al G. who said so far he hasnt found any auto = fuel with ethanol in it. If I got that wrong I apologize. So far I = havent found any auto fuel that DOESNT. As far as I can tell from my = reading ALL auto fuel in CA has at least 6% and most is at 10% now. Looks like the concerns are: 1) Vapor lock 2) Potential corrosion of aluminum components in the fuel system. 3) Deterioration of rubber (and other?) components in the fuel system. 4) Water. 5) Dislodging contaminants from previously used fuels. I believe (hope?) the vapor lock issues to be a non-problem with our EFI = systems. The potential corrosion issues seem to be overstated for = ethanol, clearly a problem with methanol. All the hose in my airplane is = Earls Perform-O-Flex which according to their website is "synthetic = rubber". I assume they mean neoprene which I gather is ethanol safe. I = assume the injectors themselves are safe? I thought Pro-Seal is also = supposed to be ethanol safe. My airplane is new so there should be no = issue with dislodged contaminants. This leaves the issue of ethanol's affinity for water. Other than always = keeping the tanks full to minimize airspace in the tank and condensation = any ideas on how to deal with this other than hoping it doesnt happen? I bring this subject up because for the second time since I've started = flying I've found a little contamination during my pre-flight when = sumping the tanks. Each fuel sample has a few ground pepper sized black = flakes in it. Whatever it is it crumbles to powder between the fingers. = The first time I completely drained the tanks and pulled the fuel = filters and cleaned them. When I refilled the tanks I used a Mr. Funnel = to make sure nothing bad got added. So whatever this is, its residual = junk in the tanks from when they were built. Or its something (like = ethanol) attacking the Pro Seal. Any comments on ethanol in general or my fuel contamination issue are = welcome. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C9984C.B70AE210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well things seem a little slow today so = how about=20 re-opening a can of worms? We had a brief discussion a while back = regarding=20 ethanol in fuel. Frankly at the time I didnt know much about the subject = but=20 have been reading a little since I'm burning auto fuel.
 
At the time I think it was Al G. who = said so far he=20 hasnt found any auto fuel with ethanol in it. If I got that wrong I = apologize.=20 So far I havent found any auto fuel that DOESNT. As far as I can tell = from my=20 reading ALL auto fuel in CA has at least 6% and most is at 10% = now.
 
Looks like the concerns = are:
1) Vapor lock
2) Potential corrosion of aluminum = components in=20 the fuel system.
3) Deterioration of rubber (and other?) = components=20 in the fuel system.
4) Water.
5) Dislodging contaminants from = previously used=20 fuels.
 
I believe (hope?) the vapor lock = issues to be=20 a non-problem with our EFI systems. The potential corrosion = issues seem to=20 be overstated for ethanol, clearly a problem with methanol. All the hose = in my=20 airplane is Earls Perform-O-Flex which according to their website is = "synthetic=20 rubber". I assume they mean neoprene which I gather is ethanol safe. I = assume=20 the injectors themselves are safe? I thought Pro-Seal is also = supposed=20 to be ethanol safe. My airplane is new so there should be no issue with=20 dislodged contaminants.
 
This leaves the issue of ethanol's = affinity for=20 water. Other than always keeping the tanks full to minimize airspace in = the tank=20 and condensation any ideas on how to deal with this other than hoping it = doesnt=20 happen?
 
I bring this subject up because for the = second time=20 since I've started flying I've found a little contamination during my = pre-flight=20 when sumping the tanks. Each fuel sample has a few ground pepper sized = black=20 flakes in it. Whatever it is it crumbles to powder between the fingers. = The=20 first time I completely drained the tanks and pulled the fuel = filters and=20 cleaned them. When I refilled the tanks I used a Mr. Funnel to make sure = nothing=20 bad got added. So whatever this is, its residual junk in the tanks from = when=20 they were built. Or its something (like ethanol) attacking the Pro=20 Seal.
 
Any comments on ethanol in general or = my fuel=20 contamination issue are welcome.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
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