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Message-ID: <497E82E2.5080609@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:43:30 -0600
From: David Staten <david.staten@gmail.com>
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Frying pan into the fire....Arrgh
References: <list-3452483@logan.com>
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Chris..
   While the sensors may have read close to ambient/"room" temperature 
when cold, did you ever calibrate the sensors by placing them in hot 
oil, and using a candy thermometer, at say.. 250 degrees farenheit? I 
know we had not reached that point when I exited your build process.

By having the low/cold temp as well as the HOT temps verified, then the 
range of the sensor can be calibrated to correct values.

What I'm saying is your temp probes may have been reading correctly 
cold, but when heated could have been seriously off when hot.. and when 
trying to stay under a given value, say 180-200, may have actually 
exceeded that value by a significant margin. Without calibration, we 
really dont know WHAT your high temps were.

Dave

Christopher Barber wrote:
> Perhaps one day I will post with good news.  However, today is not the 
> day. I have really been having some fun as I move my project from 
> "proof of concept mode" to "flight prep mode".  The engine and wires 
> have been my focus since I had to rebuild the strakes in my Velocity 
> following my Jeffco failure.  (BTW, I may have discovered the reason 
> for my Jeffco failure...more on that later).
>  
> Since I have seemingly gotten most my electrical gremlins tamed as in 
> the engine running, the alternators charging and lights working 
> properly, I was gonna start to actually hook up my Dynon D-100, 
> radios, GPS's and audio panel today.  I was also gonna take out my EC2 
> and EM2 to send to Tracy to check out one last time (my EM2 backlight 
> stopped working so I figured I would send it all in now while I tied 
> up loose ends). 
>  
> Since I was about to send my computers in and would not be able to run 
> the engine for a while I couldn't resist pushing the plane out of the 
> hangar and crank her up.  She started up as expected.  I taxied around 
> a bit making my "airplane" into a loud and expensive "go-kart".  I 
> shut down after a few minutes as the temps started to rise.
>  
> I let the bird sit for a bit and wanted to restart it.  Hmmm, not 
> starting.  Hmmmm.  Let is sit a bit more.  Try again. Still no joy.  I 
> sat there for a minute and remembered it was a bit difficult to start 
> a second time the last couple of times I ran the engine.  UHOH!  When 
> I had to build this engine it was premised by the old engine not 
> wanting to start after an initial run. The first engine got too hot 
> and was leaking coolant into the rotor housings. 
>  
> I took a big breath and went back to the exhaust.....there was a bit 
> of dirty liquid at the exhaust tip.  Damn.  Ok, take a deeper breath 
> and be a man (no offense Chrissi...I am a man<g>) and go remove a 
> sparkplug and take a look.  Sure enough I removed the leading plug of 
> rotor two and it had a bit of liquid.  I hand turned the prop and 
> steamy liquid blew out the hole. Damn-it, damn-it damn-it!  Coolant in 
> the housing.  Checked the front rotor and same thing, but less liquid. 
> Damn.
>  
> Ok, when this happened to my rebuilt first engine I blamed myself as I 
> was in a serious learning curve.  I ran it hot without a prop, too hot 
> with a prop and without proper sensors.  I really should have been 
> surprised if I didn't fry it.  So, when it failed it gave me an excuse 
> to buy new housings, end and center plates etc and build what was/is 
> essentially a new engine.  I TOOK EXTREME care as to not to ever let 
> it get too hot.  I would shut it down if it got between 210 and 220.  
> ONE TIME it got to about 225 degrees before I shut it down and that 
> was only for a matter of couple of seconds.  None the less something 
> has happened to cause coolant to enter the rotor housings again.  I 
> used what were advertised as "beefed up" O rings purchased from 
> Pineapple racing (kinda as a thanks to their rotaryengine illustrated 
> website).  It is my understanding if that if the engine gets too hot 
> these "O" rings fail and let coolant seep through.  Oh, I sooooooo 
> hope it is just the "O" rings and the hardware was spared.  All the 
> hardware is new and professionally ported by Mazdatrix to a medium 
> street port...I really was developing some power.....
>  
> I spoke with my engineer friend, Blaine, who owns a couple of aviation 
> business with R&D as a major factor as well as building a 
> Soob/Eggenfielder RV-7 and he and I are gonna look into what I 
> missed.  Verify that my sensors are working properly, check the 
> cooling system for proper flow again among other things.  Very 
> frustrating though.  I am, however, getting very good at removing my 
> engine from the plane.  I had it off and sitting on the work table in 
> only about an hour.  I am not gonna crack the engine open yet until I 
> can get Blaine over for some joint brain duty.  On a positive note, 
> there are a number of things at the "firewall aft" that I need to 
> address, this is giving me the perfect opportunity to do so.  They 
> will be much easier to improve with the engine off.
>  
> Now to resign myself to yet another engine build as we determine the why.
>  
> And, as to another "why".  I may have determined why my Jeffco failed 
> in my fuel strakes.  As loyal fans may remember I had to remove all 
> the old epoxy/Jeffco from my strakes and redo them completely a couple 
> of months ago due to the Jeffco peeling away.  Well, as I was poking 
> around the hangar looking for something I had placed as to be able to 
> find it easy later......yeah, right, I came across my old Jeffco 
> bottles.  Hmmmm, the Hardener is labeled 3191 and the Resin is labeled 
> 9700.  Now, I remember that when I ordered it a few years ago it was 
> 9700.  I remember specifically as when I first ordered from AS&S they 
> sent the wrong stuff and I returned it for the 9700.  THIS time I 
> ordered new Jeffco, but choose not to use it and just use straight 
> EZpoxy for my strakes, however, in the new order  BOTH the Hardener 
> AND the Resin were labeled 9700.  My current thought is that I used 
> the Hardener that AS&S supplied with the kit assuming (yeah, bad Chris 
> for assuming) that it was the correct one to use with the 9700 
> Resin....which is what I knew to be the proper number.  It was not 
> until the new order arrived a few months ago and I saw both the 
> hardener and resin are both 9700 and finding the original bottles from 
> a few years ago that I would have ever discovered a problem. 
>  
> I intend to send a email to the company that bought Jeffco and see if 
> they can verify this conclusion.
>  
> As always y'all's insight, commentary, Wild ass guesses and demeaning 
> remarks are anticipated and relished.  Please though, no gee Chris, 
> you sure seem to be having a lot of problems.  Yes and No...I just 
> like to share more <g>.  In the tradition of John Slade, share it all, 
> it can only help. Heck, this is the time to break things.  Much easier 
> to deal with now in my own hangar and not on some deserted strip or 
> worse yet, in the air....even if my wallet is screaming.
>  
> So, the fun starts when???????? :-)
>  
> All the best,
>  
> Chris Barber
> Houston