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Chris,
For my installation, I need to burp the engine 3 times to ensure getting all
the air out of the cooling system. Failure to do so can lead to overheating
without you necessarily being aware of it. Here's what could happen. If
you have air trapped in the system, you can pour in coolant an it will
appear full. But, air trapped in either the block or the radiators can
prevent your engine from getting a full coolant charge.
To make matters worst, the lack of coolant in the system could (if low
enough) deceive your temperature sensor. The sensor will report a lower
temperature than is correct if they are not covered by the coolant as air
does not transfer heat to the sensing element as well as water. So your
temp gauge (even if calibrated) could be reporting a lower temperature even
as you engine cooks. One thing that always happens when my rotary has
gotten hot (even if it survives it) is the engine pings like crazy after I
shut off the engine during the cool down process.
Tracy Crook pointed out to me on a visit one of the first things to do when
checking for cooling problems (may not work depending on your cooler
orientation - mine are vertical) . When you are ready fire, up your engine
and let it run for no longer than a couple of minutes. Shut the engine down
and feel with your hand along the tank of your radiator. IF there is air
trapped in it you will notice it by the fact that the part of the radiator
tank with air will not be as warm/hot as the part filled with coolant.
Using this I discovered that after a complete fill of coolant my radiator
would be filled about a third of their volume with air!. After each engine
run, I could tell the air was leaving as the hot part of the tank increased.
I leave my radiator cap off/loose when I do my burping run-ups so the air
can readily escape. I then normally have to top off the header tank with a
pint or so of coolant for about 2-3 times.
Now I will admit that my system is not as well designed as it could be about
getting trapped air out, but, Lynn has said the problem exists even in auto
installations.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 1:46 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Current Turbos being Used
David,
Where in Houston are you. As I think I have mentioned, my project is at
Ellington Field...uh, I mean Ellington Airport...the city just "upgraded"
the name.
I too hope to turbo....even though if you read my last post it seems as if I
can't seem to move past cooling issues.
All the best,
Chris Barber
www.LoneStarVelocity.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moyer" <davidm@remconinc.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:01 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Current Turbos being Used
> I'm close to Houston. I guess I would be a long way away then. Guess I
> forgot you moved.
>
> I was kind of having the feeling that it would be better to go ahead with
> the turbo setup. The cars I've built in the past I've always found it
> best to do it rightthe first time is best. It may cost a bit extra in the
> begining, but saves tons of time and money in the long run.
>
> My plane is also a Cozy MK-IV, and yes it is a Cosmo. Are you saying that
> the cosmo is going to require more cooling than a standard 13B? I am sure
> that with the turbo and the high compression rotors it will be putting
> out lots of heat. I do have one of the 3rd gen oil coolers that I can
> use for trial fitting, I guess I need to look for another one. I have
> been thinking of suplimental cooling via electric fans for oil and
> coolant.
>
> Maybe this is a question for the CA list, but do you know of any one
> running cowl flaps to exhaust the heat from the engine?
>
> On your turbo setup, did you go with the ceramic bearing option?
>
> What about the turbine wheel F1 62, 65 or 68?
>
> What about compressor trim 50 (2.122/3.000) or the Super 50
> (2.122/3.200)?
>
> Are you still running a stock intercooler or did you end up upgrading?
>
> David Moyer
>
> On Jan 24, 2009, at 7:26 PM, John Slade <sladerj@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure where you are, David, but I'd guess that you'd have to go
>> up, not down to pay a visit. I moved to Connecticut. The plane is based
>> at KWST, (Westerly, RI.)
>>
>> >Unless some one can give me a good reason to just go for it.
>> My thoughts on that were that a turbo and non turbo installation are
>> sufficiently different that converting would involve more effort than
>> just doing it right the first time. To get an NA install running
>> properly you need to pay a lot of attention to ram air and intake
>> optimization, and you need to come up with some sort of muffler.
>> Obviously the turbo doesn't need ram air, so your intake arrangement can
>> be dedicated to cooling, and the turbo acts as a pretty good muffler.
>> Exhaust augmented cooling can be arranged with either, but they'd be
>> different.
>>
>> Why not set up for the turbo, but limit the boost to something really
>> low - like 5 psi - then gradually increase the boost?
>>
>> On the oil cooler, a few people have had trouble with aftermarket
>> coolers not taking the pressure. I went with two 3rd gen oil coolers in
>> series. They're more square than the long thin 2nd gen. It depends on
>> the aircraft type I guess, but these fit well either side of my plenum
>> in the Cozy. You're going to need lots of oil cooling on that engine -
>> It's a cosmo, right?
>> Regards,
>> John
>>
>> David Moyer wrote:
>>> Thanks for the update John. Very nice setup. I woulndn't mind coming to
>>> check out your Cozy if I get down your way. I was plannimg on going to
>>> Sun-N-Fun, but i decided to take the time and money and put it into the
>>> plane.
>>> Glad to you got the bugs worked out and that gives a good starting
>>> point. I am probably going to get the engine going with out the turbo
>>> at first to eliminate other issues and add it later. Unless some one
>>> can give me a good reason to just go for it.
>>>
>>> I am building the test stand for it the weekend and a mocked up
>>> firewall for trial fitting components. I am thinking of going to a
>>> beefed up oil coolercover the stock unit that Buly was running with the
>>> engine. Any thoughts?
>>> David Moyer
>>>
>>> On Jan 23, 2009, at 3:30 PM, John Slade <sladerj@sbcglobal.net
>>> <mailto:sladerj@sbcglobal.net
>>> >> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>> I have over 50 hours on the Turbonetics "big shaft" with no problems.
>>>> Detailed specs for the turbo are listed in paragraph "turbo homework"
>>>> on my web site,
>>>> See: http://canardaviation.com/cozy/chap29h.htm
>>>> Regards,
>>>> John
>>>> /Friends don't let friends fly stock turbos
>>>> /
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
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>>
>>
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