X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.237] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3451822 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:11:19 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.198.237; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so6341697rvb.7 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:10:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=01c8BTxWYfKtnquCqEUEBSm9AgCmXHoNy4jMiR3COBI=; b=pto42+KioA3xDE1gvXIttbLgun2dAl0FXCPs5TnGuyUeI7w6dDLuTz3XlTtC/Dd+eh SNbW/aicJr7aTAzeUlw+TxXvvyo+FC9jk/Tx5THaHBi5tR/q6y1wTjAgPMvJ7f+V2/hz ptHLjPNAE87pjs6nyex3sfqVOiEHS13jFXupQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=mfKJsKz8qYUtlE1skNLXfdgx0G6opOoeKl3Tz1AaQHDWgeIW/kav3BZbZ/ZhOs5CHg jYyYayZx5nOgvRD+wahc061He79iUZX7hdeGbaPJGXs8PEo21ROCxxGjb504pjeFi4vT 9v04WS1u31xhGOfpvFf+Krv3w++I1qEqfn1KE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.152.9 with SMTP id e9mr1435926rvo.189.1232907043965; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:10:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:10:43 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0901251010i3a4ce903x8c4b09b6fd8fe559@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd2595a658be40461528a1b --000e0cd2595a658be40461528a1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, I use the following speeds, or at least these are my target speeds. 105 kts in the pattern 95 kts kts abeam the numbers - 10* flaps 90 kts on base - 20* flaps 85 on final - 30* flaps 80 on short final (Your numbers may vary) Mark On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:31 AM, wrote: > mark > thanks for the input. i have always thought the ES is relativly easy to > fly. but i do know it slides though the air with a lot less drag than most. > to me like most things you have to gradually work up in stages. > > thanks paul > > > --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Mark Steitle wrote: > > > From: Mark Steitle > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 6:41 AM > > Paul, > > > > That sounds like a good plan. My only comment is to not > > get too worked up > > over it being a "Lancair". I had been told the > > ES flies like a 172, very > > docile and predictable, and its true. I had asked around > > and couldn't find > > anyone locally that would let me fly left seat in their ES, > > even tried > > taking instruction in a Cirrus (the jerks at the flight > > school wouldn't even > > reutrn my pnone calls). > > > > So, I went to plan B. Before I flew my ES, I got an hour > > of instruction in > > a 182RG with C/S prop. That got me my high-performance and > > complex > > endorsements. To get used to flying a side stick, I > > practiced on Flight > > Simulator with a joystick (left hand) until it felt > > natural. I also did a > > lot of fast taxi runs, getting used to keeping it going > > straight down the > > runway, getting the feel of how much right rudder would be > > required, and > > raising the nose to see how it felt and looked out the > > windscreen in climb > > and flair; and getting used to the additional power of the > > 3-rotor. When > > the day came, I didn't have any trouble flying the ES. > > I don't recommend > > this approach with a IV-P, Legacy, 360, etc. I'm not > > saying not to get > > adequate training, only to not get too worked up over it > > being a "Lancair", > > therefore extrememly difficult to fly. > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:51 AM, > > wrote: > > > > > ed > > > in this market i do not think it will sell so if i > > pass my medical next > > > month i'm going to do a condition inspection on it > > and build my 10 hrs high > > > performance time my DAR said i needed before i fly it. > > if i can settle all > > > issues with lou i will fly it. > > > may see you at sun-n-fun whether we have the plane or > > not. > > > paul brannon N117ES > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Ed Anderson > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ > > Run / 20B numbers > > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > > > > Good to hear from you. Thanks for the real > > figures on your > > > > turbo 3 rotor, > > > > couldn't remember them offhand. > > > > > > > > I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays > > in the > > > > family? Or do you simply > > > > have a good home for it? > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ > > Run / 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > ed > > > > dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 386 > > ft/lb > > > > torque at 5500 rpm. > > > > not sold yet. and may fly yet. > > > > paul brannon N117ES > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Ed Anderson > > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's > > BBQ Run / > > > > 20B numbers > > > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM > > > > > Should be a fire belching dragon of an > > engine at over > > > > 15psi, > > > > > Greg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg > > of boost > > > > which > > > > > at an A/F ratio of 12 > > > > > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those > > boost > > > > levels) > > > > > would give at > > > > > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more > > power at > > > > high > > > > > rpm and boost > > > > > naturally) and producing a total of 25000 > > BTU/Min of > > > > heat > > > > > to be dumped > > > > > through the radiator and oil cooler. Boy, > > you will > > > > produce > > > > > more heat energy > > > > > that gets dumped through your oil cooler > > (8484 > > > > BTU/Min) > > > > > than my total > > > > > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts > > out. Hope > > > > you > > > > > have big radiators > > > > > and oil cooler {:>). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of guys in South Carolina had a > > turbo 3 rotor > > > > that > > > > > they stated > > > > > produced over 500 HP on the dyno. It flew, > > but > > > > > unfortunately only one > > > > > flight, before one of the partners decided > > they were > > > > not > > > > > true experimenters > > > > > and they decided to sell the project. It > > was really a > > > > nice > > > > > looking set up > > > > > on a Lancair ES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM > > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's > > BBQ Run / > > > > 20B > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Ed; > > > > > > > > > > We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer, > > starting at > > > > about > > > > > 15# of boost, > > > > > and are extensively flow testing both the > > exhaust and > > > > > induction for best > > > > > efficiency/output. That's why the > > pictures, show > > > > > everything a little bit > > > > > different from what everyone else has done. > > Trying > > > > for > > > > > optimum runner > > > > > length, as little back pressure as possible, > > early > > > > heat > > > > > removal, etc. > > > > > Haven't got any real numbers down yet, > > until we > > > > > (finally) get on the dyno > > > > > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets > > for > > > > mileage, and > > > > > going from > > > > > there, we are convinced that fuel flows > > should be > > > > pretty > > > > > good. That's why > > > > > they call it > > "experimental".....(:-) > > > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Ed > > > > > > Anderson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Rotary > > > > > > > motors in aircraft > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ > > Run / 20B > > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure > > reported was > > > > correct > > > > > - then the HP > > > > > figures I calculated are in the ball park. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing > > > > considerably > > > > > more power at sea > > > > > level (per Al's dyno run with his 3 > > rotor) with > > > > the > > > > > higher air density. > > > > > However, at altitude the upper limit would > > naturally > > > > be > > > > > less due to the less > > > > > dense air to support combustion, unless you > > are > > > > running > > > > > some sort of forced > > > > > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or > > perhaps > > > > nitrous > > > > > oxide chemical > > > > > enhancement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it > > does not > > > > matter > > > > > whether it was a 2 > > > > > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would > > really have > > > > to > > > > > be screaming to > > > > > burn at that rate {:>)), the approx HP > > equation > > > > is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon ) > > /BSFC = > > > > > 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 = > > > > > 163 HP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you choose a different BSFC such as > > 0.49 then > > > > you > > > > > get a better > > > > > conversion. But, I tend to be conservative > > in my > > > > > estimates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM > > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > > / 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo > > 20B are > > > > much > > > > > higher than that. > > > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Al Gietzen > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Rotary > > > > > > > motors in aircraft > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > > / 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp - > > or maybe > > > > one > > > > > rotor - too low. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > > Behalf Of Ed Anderson > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM > > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > > / 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be > > making > > > > approx > > > > > 165 HP, perhaps a > > > > > bit more, using a very conservative BSFC of > > 0.55. If > > > > you > > > > > assume a bit > > > > > better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183 > > HP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM > > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run / > > 20B numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great story...thanks for posting it! At > > 6,000 rpm and > > > > 15 > > > > > gph, how many HP > > > > > do you think you're developing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, have you by chance flown side by side > > with > > > > another > > > > > Lycoming powered ES > > > > > for comparison purposes? If so what did you > > learn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're going to have a couple of > > "burger > > > > > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just > > > > > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so > > maybe > > > > > you'll feel like going on > > > > > a short cross country up this way and show > > our little > > > > EAA > > > > > chapter what a > > > > > three rotor looks and sounds like?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blue Skies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > RV-9A, 13B > > > > > > > > > > Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and > > canopy work! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt > > > > > > > > > p:// > > > > > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec > > > > > emailfooterNO62> yours in just 2 easy > > steps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus, > > > > version > > > > > of virus signature > > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus, > > > > version > > > > > of virus signature > > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus, > > > > version > > > > > of virus signature > > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > > version > > > > of virus signature > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --000e0cd2595a658be40461528a1b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul,
 
I use the following speeds, or at least these are my target speeds.
 
105 kts in the pattern
95 kts kts abeam the numbers - 10* flap= s
90 kts on base - 20* flaps
85 on final - 30* flaps
80 on short final
 
(Your numbers may vary)
 
Mark
 
 
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 9:31 AM, <fpbjr2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
mark
 thanks for the inp= ut. i have always thought the ES is relativly easy to fly. but i do know it= slides though the air with a lot less drag than most.
to me like most things you have to gradually work up in stages.

&nbs= p;              thanks   paul

--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mark Steitle <mstei= tle@gmail.com>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's = BBQ Run / 20B numbers
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <= ;flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
> Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 6:41 AM
> Paul,
>
> = That sounds like a good plan.  My only comment is to not
> get t= oo worked up
> over it being a "Lancair".  I had been = told the
> ES flies like a 172, very
> docile and predictable, and its true= .  I had asked around
> and couldn't find
> anyone loc= ally that would let me fly left seat in their ES,
> even tried
>= ; taking instruction in a Cirrus (the jerks at the flight
> school wouldn't even
> reutrn my pnone calls).
>
&g= t; So, I went to plan B.  Before I flew my ES, I got an hour
> o= f instruction in
> a 182RG with C/S prop.  That got me my high-p= erformance and
> complex
> endorsements.  To get used to flying a side stick= , I
> practiced on Flight
> Simulator with a joystick (left han= d) until it felt
> natural.  I also did a
> lot of fast ta= xi runs, getting used to keeping it going
> straight down the
> runway, getting the feel of how much right r= udder would be
> required, and
> raising the nose to see how it= felt and looked out the
> windscreen in climb
> and flair; &nb= sp;and getting used to the additional power of the
> 3-rotor.  When
> the day came, I didn't have any troubl= e flying the ES.
>  I don't recommend
> this approach = with a IV-P, Legacy, 360, etc.  I'm not
> saying not to get<= br>> adequate training, only to not get too worked up over it
> being a "Lancair",
> therefore extrememly difficult to= fly.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at = 11:51 AM,
> <fpbjr2001@yaho= o.com> wrote:
>
> > ed
> >  in this market i do not think it wi= ll sell so if i
> pass my medical next
> > month i'm goi= ng to do a condition inspection on it
> and build my 10 hrs high
&= gt; > performance time my DAR said i needed before i fly it.
> if i can settle all
> > issues with lou i will fly it.
>= ; >  may see you at sun-n-fun whether we have the plane or
> = not.
> >                 &= nbsp;paul brannon    N117ES
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> &= gt;
> > > From: Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
> Run= / 20B numbers
> > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"<= br>> <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net>
> > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:43 PM
> > > Hi= Paul,
> > >
> > > Good to hear from you.  Tha= nks for the real
> figures on your
> > > turbo 3 rotor, > > > couldn't remember them offhand.
> > >
>= ; > > I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays
> in th= e
> > > family?  Or do you simply
> > > have a= good home for it?
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > Ed = Anderson
> > >
> > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered> > >
> > > Matthews, NC
> > >
> &g= t; > eanderson@carolina.rr.= com
> > >
> > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > >
> >= > h= ttp://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > >
> > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >
> > = >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.ht= m#N494BW
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----O= riginal Message-----
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
&= gt; > > [mailto:flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@y= ahoo.com
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM
&g= t; > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
> Run / 20B
> > > numbers
> > >
> > >= ; ed
> > >   dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 3= 86
> ft/lb
> > > torque at 5500 rpm.
> > > &n= bsp; not sold yet. and may fly yet.
> > >                 paul= brannon    N117ES
> > >
> > >
> &g= t; > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
> > > <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote: > > >
> > > > From: Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
= > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
> BB= Q Run /
> > > 20B numbers
> > > > To: "Rotary motors i= n aircraft"
> > > <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > > Date:= Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM
> > > > Should be a fire belching dragon of an
> engine a= t over
> > > 15psi,
> > > > Greg.
> > &= gt; >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > &g= t;  15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg
> of boost
> > > which
> > > > at an A/F rati= o of 12
> > > > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those=
> boost
> > > levels)
> > > > would give = at
> > > > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more
> pow= er  at
> > > high
> > > > rpm and boost
= > > > > naturally)  and producing a total of  25000> BTU/Min of
> > > heat
> > > > to be dumped
> > > &= gt; through the radiator and oil cooler.  Boy,
> you will
>= ; > > produce
> > > > more heat energy
> > &g= t; > that gets dumped through your oil cooler
> (8484
> > > BTU/Min)
> > > > than my total<= br>> > > > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts
> ou= t.  Hope
> > > you
> > > > have big radiato= rs
> > > > and oil cooler {:>).
> > > >
> = > > >
> > > >
> > > > A couple of gu= ys in South Carolina had a
> turbo 3 rotor
> > > that
> > > > they stated
> > > > produced over 500 HP= on the dyno.  It flew,
> but
> > > > unfortunate= ly only one
> > > > flight, before one of the partners decid= ed
> they were
> > > not
> > > > true experiment= ers
> > > > and they decided to sell the project.  It> was really a
> > > nice
> > > > looking s= et up
> > > > on a Lancair ES.
> > > >
> > &g= t; >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > = >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > E= d Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
&= gt; > > >
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > &g= t;
> > > > eand= erson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > >  <http://www.andersonee.com>
>= ; > > > h= ttp://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/= index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >= ;
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members= .cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > > >
> > >
> http://members.c= ox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
>= ; > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
&= gt; > > >   _____
> > > >
> > > &g= t; From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Greg W= ard
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM
> = > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
> BB= Q Run /
> > > 20B
> > > > numbers
> > &= gt; >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > &g= t; Hey Ed;
> > > >
> > > > We are running a 4088 Garrett ha= ir dryer,
> starting at
> > > about
> > > >= ; 15# of boost,
> > > > and are extensively flow testing bot= h the
> exhaust and
> > > > induction for best
> > >= ; > efficiency/output.  That's why the
> pictures, show> > > > everything a little bit
> > > > differ= ent from what everyone else has done.
> Trying
> > > for
> > > > optimum runner
= > > > > length, as little back pressure as possible,
> ea= rly
> > > heat
> > > > removal, etc.
> >= ; > > Haven't got any real numbers down yet,
> until we
> > > > (finally) get on the dyno
> >= > > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets
> for
> &= gt; > mileage, and
> > > > going from
> > > &= gt; there, we are convinced that fuel flows
> should be
> > > pretty
> > > > good.  = That's why
> > > > they call it
> "experiment= al".....(:-)
> > > >
> > > > Greg
>= ; > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
= > > > > From: Ed
> <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Ander= son
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: Rotar= y
> <mailto:flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
> > > > motors in aircraft
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5= :42 AM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] H= P was : Mark's BBQ
> Run / 20B
> > > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> &= gt; > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure
> reported was> > > correct
> > > > - then the HP
> > = > > figures I calculated are in the ball park.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> &= gt; > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing
> > >= considerably
> > > > more power at sea
> > > &g= t; level (per Al's dyno run with his 3
> rotor) with
> > > the
> > > > higher air de= nsity.
> > > > However, at altitude the upper limit would> naturally
> > > be
> > > > less due to the= less
> > > > dense air to support combustion, unless you
> are=
> > > running
> > > > some sort of forced
&g= t; > > > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or
> perhaps<= br> > > > nitrous
> > > > oxide chemical
> > &= gt; > enhancement.
> > > >
> > > >
>= > > >
> > > >  But if the fuel burn was 15 gp= h, then it
> does not
> > > matter
> > > > whether it wa= s a 2
> > > > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would
= > really have
> > > to
> > > > be screaming t= o
> > > > burn at that rate {:>)),  the approx HP
>= equation
> > > is:
> > > >
> > > &g= t;
> > > >
> > > > HP =3D (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 = lb gasoline/gallon )
> /BSFC =3D
> > > > 15*6/0.55 =3D 90/0.55 =3D
> >= ; > > 163 HP.
> > > >
> > > >
> &= gt; > >
> > > > Now if you choose a different BSFC suc= h as
> 0.49 then
> > > you
> > > > get a better> > > > conversion.  But, I tend to be conservative
&g= t; in my
> > > > estimates.
> > > >
> &= gt; > >
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards
> > > &= gt;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed=
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > >
> > > &g= t; Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > >
> > > >= ; Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > >  <http://www.andersonee.com>
>= ; > > > h= ttp://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/= index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >= ;
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members= .cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > > >
> > >
> http://members.c= ox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
>= ; > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
&= gt; > > >
> > > >   _____
> > > &g= t;
> > > >
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft<= br>> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Gre= g Ward
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM
> > &g= t; > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
> / 20B
> > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> &= gt; > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo
> 20B are> > > much
> > > > higher than that.
> >= > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > ----= - Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From= : Al Gietzen
> <mailto:ALVen= tures@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > To: Rotary
> <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > > motors in aircraft
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM
> > &= gt; >
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run=
> / 20B
> > > numbers
> > > >
> >= ; > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed;
> > > >
&g= t; > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems like = your numbers are about 100 hp -
> or maybe
> > > one
> > > > rotor - too low.
> > > >
> > &g= t; >
> > > >
> > > > Al G
> > >= ; >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >= -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> > &= gt; > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
> / 20B
> > > n= umbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=
> > > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be
> maki= ng
> > > approx
> > > > 165 HP, perhaps a
>= ; > > > bit more, using a very conservative  BSFC of
> = 0.55.  If
> > > you
> > > > assume a bit
> > > &g= t; better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183
> HP.
> > >= >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ><= br> > > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
>= ; > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson<= br>> > > >
> > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > >
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > &= gt;
> > > > ean= derson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > > &n= bsp;<http://www= .andersonee.com>
> > > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > &g= t;
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > &g= t;
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> >= > >
> > >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/= configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
> > > >
>= ; <h= ttp://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   __= ___
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fr= om: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@= aol.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM=
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > >= ; Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run /
> 20B numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> >= > >
> > > > Mark:
> > > >
> >= > >
> > > >
> > > > Great story...than= ks for posting it!  At
> 6,000 rpm and
> > > 15
> > > > gph, how man= y HP
> > > > do you think you're developing?
> >= ; > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >= > Also, have you by chance flown side by side
> with
> > > another
> > > > Lycoming powered= ES
> > > > for comparison purposes?  If so what did yo= u
> learn?
> > > >
> > > >
> >= > >
> > > > We're going to have a couple of
> "burge= r
> > > > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just
> &g= t; > > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so
> maybe
> > > > you'll feel like going on
> > > > a = short cross country up this way and show
> our little
> > &g= t; EAA
> > > > chapter what a
> > > > three r= otor looks and sounds like?!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> &= gt; > > Blue Skies
> > > >
> > > >
&= gt; > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > > RV-9A, 13B
> > > >
> > > >= ; Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and
> canopy work!
> >= ; > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >= >
> > > >   _____
> > > >
> > > &= gt;
> > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
>= > > >
> > > <
> >
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x120102= 8747/aol?redir=3Dhtt
> > > >
> > > p://
> >
> www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc= =3D668072%26hmpgID=3D62%26bcd=3DDec
> > > > emailfooterNO62>  yours in just 2 easy
> = steps!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >=
> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32
> Anti= virus,
> > > version
> > > > of virus signature
> &g= t; > > database 3267 (20080714) __________
> > > >
= > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32
> Antivirus= .
> > > >
> > > > http://www.eset.com
> > > >
> &= gt; > >
> > > >
> > > > __________ Info= rmation from ESET NOD32
> Antivirus,
> > > version
> > > > of virus s= ignature
> > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________
>= > > >
> > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD3= 2
> Antivirus.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.eset.com
> > = > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > &= gt; __________ Information from ESET NOD32
> Antivirus,
> > > version
> > > > of virus s= ignature
> > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________
>= > > >
> > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD3= 2
> Antivirus.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.eset.com
> > = >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >= ; --
> > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > Archive and UnS= ub:
> > >
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:8= 1/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> > >
> > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Ant= ivirus,
> version
> > > of virus signature
> > &= gt; database 3267 (20080714) __________
> > >
> > >= The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> > >
> > > http://www.eset.com
> > >
> > >
>= ; > >
> > > --
> > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/<= /a>
> > > Archive and UnSub:
> > >
> h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> ><= br> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Homepage: =  http://www.fl= yrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
> >
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >




--
Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotar= y.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancairon= line.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--000e0cd2595a658be40461528a1b--