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mark
thanks for the input. i have always thought the ES is relativly easy to fly. but i do know it slides though the air with a lot less drag than most.
to me like most things you have to gradually work up in stages.
thanks paul
--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 6:41 AM
> Paul,
>
> That sounds like a good plan. My only comment is to not
> get too worked up
> over it being a "Lancair". I had been told the
> ES flies like a 172, very
> docile and predictable, and its true. I had asked around
> and couldn't find
> anyone locally that would let me fly left seat in their ES,
> even tried
> taking instruction in a Cirrus (the jerks at the flight
> school wouldn't even
> reutrn my pnone calls).
>
> So, I went to plan B. Before I flew my ES, I got an hour
> of instruction in
> a 182RG with C/S prop. That got me my high-performance and
> complex
> endorsements. To get used to flying a side stick, I
> practiced on Flight
> Simulator with a joystick (left hand) until it felt
> natural. I also did a
> lot of fast taxi runs, getting used to keeping it going
> straight down the
> runway, getting the feel of how much right rudder would be
> required, and
> raising the nose to see how it felt and looked out the
> windscreen in climb
> and flair; and getting used to the additional power of the
> 3-rotor. When
> the day came, I didn't have any trouble flying the ES.
> I don't recommend
> this approach with a IV-P, Legacy, 360, etc. I'm not
> saying not to get
> adequate training, only to not get too worked up over it
> being a "Lancair",
> therefore extrememly difficult to fly.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:51 AM,
> <fpbjr2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ed
> > in this market i do not think it will sell so if i
> pass my medical next
> > month i'm going to do a condition inspection on it
> and build my 10 hrs high
> > performance time my DAR said i needed before i fly it.
> if i can settle all
> > issues with lou i will fly it.
> > may see you at sun-n-fun whether we have the plane or
> not.
> > paul brannon N117ES
> >
> >
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
> Run / 20B numbers
> > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:43 PM
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > Good to hear from you. Thanks for the real
> figures on your
> > > turbo 3 rotor,
> > > couldn't remember them offhand.
> > >
> > > I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays
> in the
> > > family? Or do you simply
> > > have a good home for it?
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > Ed Anderson
> > >
> > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > >
> > > Matthews, NC
> > >
> > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > >
> > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > >
> > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > >
> > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > >
> > >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com
> > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM
> > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ
> Run / 20B
> > > numbers
> > >
> > > ed
> > > dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 386
> ft/lb
> > > torque at 5500 rpm.
> > > not sold yet. and may fly yet.
> > > paul brannon N117ES
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson
> > > <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Ed Anderson
> <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
> BBQ Run /
> > > 20B numbers
> > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> > > <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM
> > > > Should be a fire belching dragon of an
> engine at over
> > > 15psi,
> > > > Greg.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg
> of boost
> > > which
> > > > at an A/F ratio of 12
> > > > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those
> boost
> > > levels)
> > > > would give at
> > > > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more
> power at
> > > high
> > > > rpm and boost
> > > > naturally) and producing a total of 25000
> BTU/Min of
> > > heat
> > > > to be dumped
> > > > through the radiator and oil cooler. Boy,
> you will
> > > produce
> > > > more heat energy
> > > > that gets dumped through your oil cooler
> (8484
> > > BTU/Min)
> > > > than my total
> > > > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts
> out. Hope
> > > you
> > > > have big radiators
> > > > and oil cooler {:>).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A couple of guys in South Carolina had a
> turbo 3 rotor
> > > that
> > > > they stated
> > > > produced over 500 HP on the dyno. It flew,
> but
> > > > unfortunately only one
> > > > flight, before one of the partners decided
> they were
> > > not
> > > > true experimenters
> > > > and they decided to sell the project. It
> was really a
> > > nice
> > > > looking set up
> > > > on a Lancair ES.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > >
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > > >
> > >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's
> BBQ Run /
> > > 20B
> > > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Ed;
> > > >
> > > > We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer,
> starting at
> > > about
> > > > 15# of boost,
> > > > and are extensively flow testing both the
> exhaust and
> > > > induction for best
> > > > efficiency/output. That's why the
> pictures, show
> > > > everything a little bit
> > > > different from what everyone else has done.
> Trying
> > > for
> > > > optimum runner
> > > > length, as little back pressure as possible,
> early
> > > heat
> > > > removal, etc.
> > > > Haven't got any real numbers down yet,
> until we
> > > > (finally) get on the dyno
> > > > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets
> for
> > > mileage, and
> > > > going from
> > > > there, we are convinced that fuel flows
> should be
> > > pretty
> > > > good. That's why
> > > > they call it
> "experimental".....(:-)
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Ed
> <mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
> > > Anderson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: Rotary
> <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > > motors in aircraft
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ
> Run / 20B
> > > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure
> reported was
> > > correct
> > > > - then the HP
> > > > figures I calculated are in the ball park.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing
> > > considerably
> > > > more power at sea
> > > > level (per Al's dyno run with his 3
> rotor) with
> > > the
> > > > higher air density.
> > > > However, at altitude the upper limit would
> naturally
> > > be
> > > > less due to the less
> > > > dense air to support combustion, unless you
> are
> > > running
> > > > some sort of forced
> > > > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or
> perhaps
> > > nitrous
> > > > oxide chemical
> > > > enhancement.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it
> does not
> > > matter
> > > > whether it was a 2
> > > > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would
> really have
> > > to
> > > > be screaming to
> > > > burn at that rate {:>)), the approx HP
> equation
> > > is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon )
> /BSFC =
> > > > 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 =
> > > > 163 HP.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now if you choose a different BSFC such as
> 0.49 then
> > > you
> > > > get a better
> > > > conversion. But, I tend to be conservative
> in my
> > > > estimates.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > >
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > > >
> > >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
> / 20B
> > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo
> 20B are
> > > much
> > > > higher than that.
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: Al Gietzen
> <mailto:ALVentures@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > To: Rotary
> <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > > > motors in aircraft
> > > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM
> > > >
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
> / 20B
> > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp -
> or maybe
> > > one
> > > > rotor - too low.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al G
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run
> / 20B
> > > numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be
> making
> > > approx
> > > > 165 HP, perhaps a
> > > > bit more, using a very conservative BSFC of
> 0.55. If
> > > you
> > > > assume a bit
> > > > better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183
> HP.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ed Anderson
> > > >
> > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > > >
> > > > Matthews, NC
> > > >
> > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > > >
> > > > <http://www.andersonee.com>
> > > > http://www.andersonee.com
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>
> > > >
> > >
> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > > >
> > > >
> <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM
> > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run /
> 20B numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mark:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Great story...thanks for posting it! At
> 6,000 rpm and
> > > 15
> > > > gph, how many HP
> > > > do you think you're developing?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also, have you by chance flown side by side
> with
> > > another
> > > > Lycoming powered ES
> > > > for comparison purposes? If so what did you
> learn?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We're going to have a couple of
> "burger
> > > > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just
> > > > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so
> maybe
> > > > you'll feel like going on
> > > > a short cross country up this way and show
> our little
> > > EAA
> > > > chapter what a
> > > > three rotor looks and sounds like?!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blue Skies
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > > RV-9A, 13B
> > > >
> > > > Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and
> canopy work!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
> > > >
> > > <
> >
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt
> > > >
> > > p://
> >
> www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec
> > > > emailfooterNO62> yours in just 2 easy
> steps!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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