X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3323935 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:32:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20081130183204.ZZEB7376.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:32:04 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:32:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C952F0.0AA1E2E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AclS/Mzr1cpQz5vzQS+pNd3QIBxbgQAGvLjw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20081130183204.ZZEB7376.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C952F0.0AA1E2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations, Jeff!! Safe first flight and that=92s what really = counts, the rest of the stuff you=92ll get it solved. =20 On my first flight 13B (No Thermostat =96 plug the =BD=94 hole in the = bottom of the thermostat housing if you have a 13B =96 not certain about the = Renesis) I had oil temps up to 240F (high as the gauge went). I don=92t recall the = exact temps on the coolant but I do know they were over my 220F red line. =20 But, with an outside temp of 32F, I am surprised that the coolant got = that high and did not come back much when you throttle back. However, I = would say that the fact that your pressure gauge was that high was a further indication that the coolant temp problem was real rather than just a = gauge or sensor problem. As other=92s have suggested, calibrate your sensor = and gauges if you have not already done so. =20 Another problem may well have been the missing belt. It is possible = that particular if the two belts were not of the same exact length and then = you lost one =96 that the water pump load may have been causing the belt = slip and your water pump rpm may not have been where it should have been. Any = signs of belt slippage (shiny, hard glaze on the running surface of the = belt??). I fly with the dual belt racing beat/MazdaTrix pulley and really like = it. =20 =20 I personally fly without a thermostat =96 however, it seldom gets and = stays that cold at my airport for any length of time. Another thing is that = if you are using the 13B (can=92t speak for the Renesis) with a thermostat = =96 it MUST be a Mazda RX-7 Thermostat OR you MUST plug the =BD=94 hole in the = bottom of the thermostat housing. If it is not plugged, approx 20% of your = coolant flow effectiveness is compromised. IF you have an RX-7 thermostat then = it has a feature that plugs the hole when the temps comes up but other thermostats do not. =20 Lets seem some photos of your cooling ducts and system if you have any available. =20 Again, congratulations on the first flight. =20 =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot =20 I was in the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without = problems. The coolant temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature = was indicating only 160F (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I=92m = not sure =85 oil temp measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the = PSRU mounting plate, with oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure pegged the gauge = beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi =85 = I expected the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20 psi. =20 I tightened up the cowling around the radiator and removed the = thermostat in an attempt to make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the alternator V-belts was broken =85 got another belt = only to find it didn=92t match the other =85 these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) = did not have the same tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out = of the pulley groove and got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a = double alternator pulley from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to = difficulty with removing the nut =85 thought it best to leave well enough alone =85 = I will now put on that new pulley. =20 Hope to make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in = agreement. Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no thermostat? Why would the pressure cap hold beyond its rating? Jeff Whaley C-FJWW =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis fuel burn =20 If you haven't calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does = not mean anything. Don't make any decisions based on that reading. Calibrating the fuel flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts = of EM2 setup. That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive = flow sensor ($0.00) since it has none. The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor with the EM2 but they are pricy. At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting and 6400 = RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH. The exact = amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc. Tracy Crook On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino wrote: Where can I get information on fuel burn and power for the renesis? The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the = EM2) at 64 00 rpm. The EM2 is not fully calibrated yet! I think I should = be able to get a higher fuel burn than that. =20 The other part of the problem. What should be the intake manifold = runner length on the Renesis. Best power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration. I cannot use more = than 65" dia. prop. =20 The present runner length is 17" and I think it is not enough. =20 Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C952F0.0AA1E2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations, Jeff!!=A0 Safe = first flight and that’s what really counts, the rest of the stuff you’ll = get it solved.

 

On my first flight 13B (No = Thermostat – plug the =BD” hole in the bottom of the thermostat housing if you = have a 13B – not certain about the Renesis) I had oil temps up to 240F = (high as the gauge went).=A0 I don’t recall the exact temps on the coolant = but I do know they were over my 220F red line.

 

But, with an outside temp of 32F, I = am surprised that the coolant got that high and did not come back much when = you throttle back.=A0 However, I would say that the fact that your pressure = gauge was that high was a further indication that the coolant temp problem was = real rather than just a gauge or sensor problem.=A0 As other’s have = suggested, calibrate your sensor and gauges=A0 if you have not=A0 already done = so.

 

Another problem may well have been = the missing belt.=A0 It is possible that particular if the two belts were not of the = same exact length and then you lost one – that the water pump load may = have been causing the belt slip and your water pump rpm may not have been = where it should have been.=A0 Any signs of belt slippage (shiny, hard glaze on = the running surface of the belt??).=A0 I fly with the dual belt racing = beat/MazdaTrix pulley and really like it.=A0

 

I personally fly without a = thermostat – however, it seldom gets and stays that cold at my airport for any length = of time.=A0 Another thing is that if you are using the 13B (can’t = speak for the Renesis) with a thermostat – it MUST be a Mazda RX-7 =A0Thermostat = OR you MUST plug the =BD” hole in the bottom of the thermostat = housing.=A0 If it is not plugged, approx 20% of your coolant flow effectiveness is = compromised.=A0 IF you have an RX-7 thermostat then it has a feature that plugs the hole = when the temps comes up but other thermostats do = not.

 

Lets seem some photos of your = cooling ducts and system if you have any available.

 

Again, congratulations on the first flight.

 

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff = Whaley
Sent: Sunday, November = 30, 2008 10:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] : = First Flight, short and hot

 

I was in = the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight = yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant = temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it = had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F = (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I’m not sure … oil temp = measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with = oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. = The coolant pressure pegged the gauge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as = the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi … I expected the engine to burp = itself out and maintain 20 psi.

 <= /o:p>

I tightened = up the cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat in an attempt to = make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the = alternator V-belts was broken … got another belt only to find it didn’t = match the other … these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) did not have the same = tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out of the pulley groove and = got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alternator pulley = from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to difficulty with removing the = nut … thought it best to leave well enough alone … I will now = put on that new pulley.

 <= /o:p>

Hope to = make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in = agreement.

Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no = thermostat?

Why would = the pressure cap hold beyond its rating?

Jeff = Whaley

C-FJWW<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Saturday, November = 29, 2008 3:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis fuel burn

 

If you haven't = calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything.  = Don't make any decisions based on that reading.   Calibrating the fuel = flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup.   = That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) = since it has none.   The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor = with the EM2  but they are pricy.

  At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting = and 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH.  The = exact amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your = intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc.

Tracy Crook

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca> = wrote:

Where can I get information on fuel burn and power = for the renesis?

The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 = gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm.   The EM2 is not fully = calibrated yet!   I think I should be able to get a higher fuel burn than = that.

 

The other part of the problem.  What should be = the intake manifold runner length on the Renesis.  Best power has = to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration.   I cannot use more than 65" dia. = prop.

 

The present runner length is 17" and I think it = is not enough.

 

Rino = Lacombe

Renesis = powered Glass Goose

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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