X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.238] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3304489 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:18:25 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.198.238; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so2927464rvb.7 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:mime-version:content-type:x-google-sender-auth; bh=dBGLC3kVb6b3lS2sSUGS2zFTBBLfBc61MBDBRbwDeVg=; b=hO/f7X8ZnZwuJUNwvmnsJp22dDHAFvL+vt8vJeGhtlkisfhTn9avrvQpZDlL1D9y6c eiA5voGsLkHPyhCwmpYPXv2Svab8oP819GooRjjdp0VxDmfVe0UHlqnh8XLkKz2fk2MO orglDp8HKqMMZ3Uc7vG6rdNH42rdv1CGbcZWg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :x-google-sender-auth; b=njs9nOjGWFv2AEzw0ntd9uwIf61Pf7msbWpCc5JvUqm0PoIFthrsDZq0gvJvPZ42RM eKkSH5Mrs+dcXnImzLN/J3UgM9ypRMK4s4ParRkeKPWwbDdR1l7LD9ea4Y2w9L/xFPnH U8D1zd84Vifi4O4iAvK/iSTc4LBiJiHMCMwbo= Received: by 10.141.141.3 with SMTP id t3mr2433840rvn.15.1226949470113; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.172.17 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:17:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0811171117n30a76501qb3bb668a48e8989f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:17:50 -0500 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] high EGT temps Rotor #1- Remote trouble shooting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_44700_16788461.1226949470091" X-Google-Sender-Auth: c884c03a153e9e82 ------=_Part_44700_16788461.1226949470091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Don, Remote troubleshooting is always a crap shoot but here's a few observations. 20" is close to thew Renesis EC2 staging point so it sounds like the change happens simultaneously with staging. Can you confirm this with EM2 reading (on EC2 map screen)? 1640 is not high, but a max of 1480 is a bit low. Be aware that there are two settings for mode 4, one below staging and one above. You can't adjust below and get a change above. Where did you do the Mode 4 adjustment? But in any case, you should have seen a change where ever you did it. If there really was no change (even a small one) there may be a wiring error causing the EC2 not to program in that mode. EXACTLY how did you "swap EGT probes". Did you swap the holes they were in or did you switch the wires around. Evaluating the test results depends on how this was done. Intake manifolds can have an amazing effect on mixture balance. Just for illustration, I'll post another message soon on the results of a field trip I made after a year long remote trouble shooting attempt. Tracy Crook On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Don Walker wrote: > Rotorians, > Now that the airplane is painted, weighed, prop ballenced and etc. I'm > into tuning and getting comfortable with the engine. Yesterday I noticed > that as I ran the engine up, #1 rotor EGT trailed #2 by 20 to 30 degrees and > then at about 20 inches of manifold, #1 started climbing rapidly! At max > static throttle 5828 rpm (prop speed of 2045) or so, #1 runs to 1640 > degrees while #2 maxes at 1480 degrees. I played with the mixture etc. No > difference. I have checked the plugs and swaped them. No difference. > Stock RX-7 plugs. Pulled one and then the other secondary inj. connector. > It starts and runs and then drops off as RPM gets high. Same on both #1 and > 2. Swapped injectors. No difference. Tryed using Mode 4, both to increase > mixture and then to decrease. No difference. Reset Mode 4 back to > default. Swapped EGT probes. High temps showed up on #2 on EM-2. Swapped > back. Checked the archives. Nothing. The EGT probes are installed through > holes in the exhaust 5 inches from the engine outlet. So I am at a loss. > Any thoughts on what might be causing this? Engine basically running smooth > and strong. Months ago, I remember getting 6150 RPM, but couldn't get it to > run long enough to check out EGTs. Cooling problems. A couple of other > things that may or may not have anything to do with this. Manifold display > on EM-2 sometimes jumps around some. I have tried porting to the front of > the intake and to the rear. Now I have it teed to both. Auto tune tries to > work, but does not. (O2 sensor installed at end of tangenial) I ran it > almost 2.5 hours total yesterday. 11.7 hours total. since last December. > Quietest airplane on the field. Lots of attention from other pilots. > > Don Walker > RV-8 N113BR > Renesis 4 port. RD-1c > EC-2 EM-2 > Tuned 17.5 inch intake. > Tuned 24 inch exhaust into tangetial premuffler > catto 76/88. Field elevation 5000 ft. density 6200 > ------=_Part_44700_16788461.1226949470091 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Don,
   Remote troubleshooting is always a crap shoot but here's a few observations.

20" is close to thew Renesis EC2 staging point so it sounds like the change happens simultaneously with staging.   Can you confirm this with EM2 reading (on EC2 map screen)?

1640 is not high, but a max of 1480 is a bit low. 

Be aware that there are two settings for mode 4, one below staging and one above.  You can't adjust below and get a change above.  Where did you do the Mode 4 adjustment?  But in any case, you should have seen a change where ever you did it.  If there really was no change (even a small one) there may be a wiring error causing the EC2 not to program in that mode.

EXACTLY how did you "swap EGT probes".  Did you swap the holes they were in or did you switch the wires around.   Evaluating the test results depends on how this was done.

Intake manifolds can have an amazing effect on mixture balance.

Just for illustration, I'll post another message soon on the results of a field trip I made after a year long remote trouble shooting attempt.

Tracy Crook


On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Don Walker <drwalker@gbis.com> wrote:
Rotorians,
Now that the airplane is painted, weighed, prop ballenced and etc.  I'm into tuning and getting comfortable with the engine.  Yesterday I noticed that as I ran the engine up, #1 rotor EGT trailed #2 by 20 to 30 degrees and then at about 20 inches of manifold, #1 started climbing rapidly!   At max static throttle 5828 rpm (prop speed of 2045) or so,  #1 runs to 1640 degrees while #2 maxes at 1480 degrees.  I played with the mixture etc.  No difference.  I have checked the plugs and swaped them.  No difference.  Stock RX-7 plugs.  Pulled one and then the other secondary inj. connector.  It starts and runs and then drops off as RPM gets high.  Same on both #1 and 2.  Swapped injectors.  No difference.  Tryed using Mode 4, both to increase mixture and then to decrease.  No difference.  Reset Mode 4 back to default.  Swapped EGT probes.  High temps showed up on #2 on EM-2.  Swapped back.  Checked the archives.  Nothing.  The EGT probes are installed through holes in the exhaust 5 inches from the engine outlet.   So I am at a loss.  Any thoughts on what might be causing this?  Engine basically running smooth and strong.  Months ago, I remember getting 6150 RPM, but couldn't get it to run long enough to check out EGTs.  Cooling problems.  A couple of other things that may or may not have anything to do with this. Manifold display on EM-2 sometimes jumps around some.  I have tried porting to the front of the intake and to the rear.  Now I have it teed to both.  Auto tune tries to work, but does not.  (O2 sensor installed at end of tangenial)  I ran it almost 2.5 hours total yesterday.  11.7 hours total. since last December.  Quietest airplane on the field.  Lots of attention from other pilots.
 
Don Walker
RV-8 N113BR
Renesis 4 port. RD-1c
EC-2 EM-2
Tuned 17.5 inch intake.
Tuned 24 inch exhaust into tangetial premuffler
catto 76/88.  Field elevation 5000 ft.  density 6200

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