X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3046012 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:16:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20080728211614.MQNV18001.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:16:14 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Safety wire Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:16:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C8F0D5.A7E2D460" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acjw3yIRU6NxBQ7ZQs26fBpxSCig2QAFv2aw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 Message-Id: <20080728211614.MQNV18001.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C8F0D5.A7E2D460 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, I=92ve never measure the angle so who really knows. Gee, that = takes some precision drilling there, Bill. Now, we=92ll all know where to = send our tension bolts to be drilled {:>). =20 Actually, I use a racers trick for retention of the long rotary tension bolts. A couple of folks have actually had one back out in flight. Fortunately, the one incident I am familiar with was using the heavy fly wheel (rather than the flex plate =96 although I don=92t know whether it = would have made a difference) and when the bolt came loose and backed its head = out into the path of the flywheel something caught the bolt and bent a 90 = deg bend in it. Fortunately, the rotary got the aviator back safely, but suffice it to say one does not want tension bolts backing out like that. =20 I notice on one of the junk 13Bs I acquired that had been used by a = racer, that there was a thin steel sheet disc that was bolted using the outer = seal bolts but which extend out almost the full diameter of the block =96 = covering the heads of all the tension bolts. Needless to say, that precludes any backing out into the fly wheel/flex plate. But, does not keep them from coming loose like a safety wire would. =20 Yes, I use the metal lock nuts (NOT the ones with plastic inserts for = any new comers to aviation) for all bolts in the engine compartment = including my prop. =20 =20 Now back to programming. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 2:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Safety wire =20 Ed what's a couple of degrees between friends? Al suggested he has used metal lock nuts whenever possible. I like this solution. the steel = Jet-nuts are fantastic if somewhat expensive. With reguards to weakening bolts by wiring, I will use a technique where I drill through a corner only on low-grade nuts or bolts. This is a little tedious but I've done 30 in an hour when I did them production style. First I spot the bolt with a = slightly larger drill, them I drill perpendicular to the cone surface a short distance with a .06 drill. This sounds hard but if you hold the head by = the flats it lines up perfectly. Then do the same thing on an adjoining = flat. Not as good as the AN through drilled bolt, but easy to do. Works on = nuts too! I've done this on exhaust nuts on a problem engine I had. Not the = only solution, and sometimes overkill. The biggest advantage of having bolts drilled for wire is that you will usually tighten them before wiring = them! This is the reason racers use a lot of wire. the wire is a great = reminder when replacing parts. If I have anything on my plane that I find I'm removing and replacing a lot it WILL be safety wired. Most items DON'T = NEED safety wire, if you remember to tighten them. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 9:46 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Safety wire That=92s impressive, Bill. I don=92t think (as Lynn said) and aircraft = ever came out of the sky because of safety wire =96 but plenty have because lack = of it. However, some bolts and such on the rotary, you would need to drill the heads/nuts yourself =96 in that case, I=92m think I would look to other alternatives as drilling a bolt head or threaded part could weaken it. Fortunately, the vibration level is lot lower on the rotary compared to = most reciprocating engines. =20 By the way, I=92ll bet you even wire the 37 deg AN fittings as well = {:>) =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = wrjjrs@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 12:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Safety wire =20 Keith, there will be many divergent opinions on this I'm sure. My personal = mantra is safety wire anything you don't want to fall off! There are several approaches too. I am an ex motorcycle racer and the rules required all = basic safety items to be wired. Those were, all oil drains, water drain plugs = if any, brake mount bolts, and oil feed bolts and filters. I would usually = do more than was required. I have seen many things vibrate off that you wouldn't think possible when operating at high power levels. I would use both .039 and .025 stainless steel safety wire. The .025 isn't FAA = approved on a lot of things, but it's light and serves the purpose. I even wired 39=B0AN fittings, which isn't required. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: ktradcliff@comcast.net< /A> To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 5:07 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Safety wire Hello everyone, =20 I know that the subject of safety wire has been discussed many times = before, however searching the archives can at times be very difficult and = actually=20 finding the answer you want is like winning the lottery (it never = happens). What I would like to know is what most are considering an absolute must = to be=20 safety wired. What the FAA r equires and what is not so important but some are=20 doing anyway. I feel that the subject of safety can never be discussed enough. =20 I would like everyone that has an opinion on safety wire and what must = be safety=20 wired to weigh in on this subject. I plan to save some if not all of = your=20 answers for future reference. Maybe we can make a list of what must be safety=20 wired. =20 Thanks Keith RV-7A 13-B=20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html _____ =20 The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. = Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!=20 _____ =20 The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. = Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C8F0D5.A7E2D460 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah, I’ve never measure the = angle so who really knows.=A0=A0 Gee, that takes some precision drilling there, Bill. = =A0Now, we’ll all know where to send our tension bolts to be drilled = {:>).

 

Actually, I use a racers trick for retention of the long rotary tension bolts.=A0 A couple of folks have = actually had one back out in flight.=A0 Fortunately, the one incident I am = familiar with was using the heavy fly wheel (rather than the flex plate – = although I don’t know whether it would have made a difference) and when the bolt came = loose and backed its head out into the path of the flywheel something caught the = bolt and bent a 90 deg bend in it.=A0 Fortunately, the rotary got the aviator = back safely, but suffice it to say one does not want tension bolts backing out like = that.

 

I notice on one of the junk 13Bs I acquired that had been used by a racer, that there was a thin steel = sheet disc that was bolted using the outer seal bolts but which extend out almost = the full diameter of the block – covering the heads of all the tension = bolts.=A0 Needless to say, that precludes any backing out into the fly wheel/flex plate.=A0 = But, does not keep them from coming loose like a=A0 safety wire = would.

 

Yes, I use the metal lock nuts (NOT = the ones with plastic inserts for any new comers to aviation) for all bolts = in the engine compartment including my prop.

 

 

Now back to = programming.

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, = 2008 2:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Safety wire

 

Ed what's a = couple of degrees between friends? Al suggested he has used metal lock nuts = whenever possible. I like this solution. the steel Jet-nuts are fantastic if somewhat expensive. With reguards to weakening bolts by wiring, I will = use a technique where I drill through a corner only on low-grade nuts or = bolts. This is a little tedious but I've done 30 in an hour when I did them = production style. First I spot the bolt with a slightly larger drill, them I drill perpendicular to the cone surface a short distance with a .06 drill. = This sounds hard but if you hold the head by the flats it lines up perfectly. = Then do the same thing on an adjoining flat. Not as good as the AN through = drilled bolt, but easy to do. Works on nuts too! I've done this on exhaust nuts = on a problem engine I had. Not the only solution, and sometimes overkill. The biggest advantage of having bolts drilled for wire is that you will = usually tighten them before wiring them! This is the reason racers use a lot of = wire. the wire is a great reminder when replacing parts. If I have anything on = my plane that I find I'm removing and replacing a lot it WILL be safety = wired. Most items DON'T NEED safety wire, if you remember to tighten them.
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 9:46 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Safety wire

That’s impressive, Bill. I = don’t think (as Lynn = said) and aircraft ever came out of the sky because of safety wire – but = plenty have because lack of it.  However, some bolts and such on the rotary, = you would need to drill the heads/nuts yourself – in that case, I’m = think I would look to other alternatives as drilling a bolt head or threaded part could weaken = it. Fortunately, the vibration level is lot lower on the rotary compared to = most reciprocating engines.

 

By the way,   I’ll = bet you even wire the 37 deg AN fittings as well {:>)

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 28, = 2008 12:21 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Safety wire

 

Keith,
there will be many divergent opinions on this I'm sure. My personal = mantra is safety wire anything you don't want to fall off! There are several = approaches too. I am an ex motorcycle racer and the rules required all basic safety = items to be wired. Those were, all oil drains, water drain plugs if any, brake = mount bolts, and oil feed bolts and filters. I would usually do more than was required. I have seen many things vibrate off that you wouldn't think = possible when operating at high power levels. I would use both .039 and .025 = stainless steel safety wire. The .025 isn't FAA approved on a lot of things, = but it's light and serves the purpose. I even wired 39=B0AN fittings, which = isn't required.
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: ktradcliff@comcast.net< /A>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ;
Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 5:07 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Safety wire

Hello =
everyone,
 
I know that the subject of safety =
wire has been discussed many times before,  =

however searching the archives =
can at times be very difficult and actually =

finding the answer you want is =
like winning the lottery (it never happens).  =

What I would like to know is what =
most are considering an absolute must to be =

safety wired.  What the FAA =
r
equires and what is not so =
important but some are 
doing anyway.  I feel that =
the subject of safety can never be discussed enough.  =

I would like everyone that has an =
opinion on safety wire and what must be safety 
wired to weigh in on this =
subject.  I plan to save some if not all of your =

answers for future =
reference.  Maybe we can make a list of what must be safety =

wired.
 
Thanks
Keith<=
/tt>
RV-7A
13-B 
 
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis=
t.html

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame = - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar = Now! =

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar = Now! =

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C8F0D5.A7E2D460--