X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.2) with ESMTP id 2874276 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:43:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080427164247.ZWNX20708.cdptpa-omta06.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:42:47 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c8a885$d28e3170$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Dube and Killacycle? Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:43:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C8A864.4B483B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C8A864.4B483B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Mike, for the synopsis on the battery technology. I doubt I = will ever fly in an electrical propelled aircraft - but dropping weight = with better, lighter batteries at a reasonable cost is always = attractive. I don't guess you have heard from Bill Dube recently?? Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Wills=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Dube and Killacycle? The Killacycle uses lithium phosphate batteries manufactured by the = A123 company. Look up A123 on Wikipedia for details. The A123 cells are = the ones used by Dewalt in their high end lithium power tools. The A123 cells have been used quite a bit by the RC crowd as an = alternative to lithium polymers which have been pretty popular in RC for = a few years. In fact lithium polymer has really made electric powered RC = flight possible/practical. Compared to lithium polymer the A123 cells = have a lower power density, are heavier, and are far less volatile to = use than lithium polymer. They are also cheaper due to their high volume = use by Dewalt compared to the relatively low volume RC market for = li-poly. As far as I know there is still no way for an end user to buy = A123s as raw cells. The guys using them in RC buy Dewalt battery packs = and hack them. For guys looking for a cheaper electric alternative to = li-poly who dont need max performance the A123 cells are a good choice. Li-poly is still the only battery technology that I know of that has = the potential to actually power a man carrying aircraft. In fact they = are currently being used in several European self launch sailplane = designs. There is also a guy here in the US marketing a Ultralight trike = that is electric powered and he has an electric self launch sailplane = almost ready to fly. Still electric power is a niche that isnt yet practical for most = pilots. Li-polys are expensive, still considerably heavier than gasoline = with less energy density, and are potentially very hazardous if = mishandled or damaged. Mike Wills ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:23 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Bill Dube and Killacycle? I saw the battery powered Killacycle drag racing on TV last night = against a gasoline powered drag cycle in the quarter mile. They both = hit 160 mph with the gasoline cycle bearly beating the Killacycle by a = small margin. Speaking of which has anyone heard anything recently from = Bill Dube and his very interesting work on that new type of battery?? Here is a video link to one of the killacycle's burnout and drag = races for those of you not familiar with the work Bill has done. =20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D70j9rTyd0zo&feature=3Drelated Bill Dube are you still one the list??? Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C8A864.4B483B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Mike, for the synopsis on the = battery=20 technology.  I doubt I will ever fly in an electrical propelled = aircraft -=20 but dropping weight with better, lighter  batteries at a reasonable = cost is=20 always attractive.
 
I don't guess you have heard from Bill = Dube=20 recently??
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike = Wills
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 = 11:51=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill = Dube and=20 Killacycle?

The Killacycle uses lithium phosphate = batteries=20 manufactured by the A123 company. Look up A123 on Wikipedia for=20 details. The A123 cells are the ones used by Dewalt in their high = end=20 lithium power tools.
 
The A123 cells have been used quite a = bit by the=20 RC crowd as an alternative to lithium polymers which have been pretty = popular=20 in RC for a few years. In fact lithium polymer has really made = electric=20 powered RC flight possible/practical. Compared to lithium polymer the = A123=20 cells have a lower power density, are heavier, and are far less = volatile to=20 use than lithium polymer. They are also cheaper due to their high = volume use=20 by Dewalt compared to the relatively low volume RC market for li-poly. = As far=20 as I know there is still no way for an end user to buy A123s as raw = cells. The=20 guys using them in RC buy Dewalt battery packs and hack them. For guys = looking=20 for a cheaper electric alternative to li-poly who dont need max = performance=20 the A123 cells are a good choice.
 
Li-poly is still the only battery = technology that=20 I know of that has the potential to actually power a man carrying = aircraft. In=20 fact they are currently being used in several European self launch = sailplane=20 designs. There is also a guy here in the US marketing a Ultralight = trike that=20 is electric powered and he has an electric self launch sailplane = almost ready=20 to fly.
 
Still electric power is a niche that = isnt yet=20 practical for most pilots. Li-polys are expensive, still considerably = heavier=20 than gasoline with less energy density, and are potentially very = hazardous if=20 mishandled or damaged.
 
Mike Wills
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 = 7:23=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Bill = Dube and=20 Killacycle?

I saw the battery powered =  Killacycle=20 drag racing on TV last night against a gasoline powered drag cycle = in the=20 quarter mile.  They both hit 160 mph with the gasoline cycle = bearly=20 beating the Killacycle by a small margin.  Speaking of which = has anyone=20 heard anything recently from Bill Dube and his very interesting = work on=20 that new type of battery??
 
Here is a video link to one of the=20 killacycle's burnout and drag races for those of you not familiar = with the=20 work Bill has done. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D70j9rTyd0zo&feature=3Drelated=
 
Bill Dube are you still one the=20 list???
 
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.comhttp://www.andersonee.com
http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html
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