X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.233] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2785084 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:22:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.233; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so1837660wxd.25 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=Yar4CR6s73J+vMoOjWkv8YUZXy3wYelTaEIemoMyRlw=; b=Fb46FMcpdtnDXX5pZvebQQcE6Ser+HGZ9PKBcu7pFvUnmUSiyccbHpMUR0cZoTyVlkf7vi0TQnIs+NutUf1fpAkiddCqtk07SiBhVoZ3plofmcEucCygHxIfRZrVdtPM23GdlCZ6N+WyoxRMh/2GX1ENSLtsnNxAJhQ1KXRNsAA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fD16RSHRdECKDj93L0Ta1rv9xHBHQcXgRlqqDuRX8cLeFxuo1vvdSoMHGnQHEUFxtkR79b5KT/VNr5/ACbLjINVKk9SgI9D832m94aIf2HynZJhZb4a6EZShds7eNh5ZmaMm6ShaOg8WLLbZ57P8P8ZMfoRiqcaDMwKcyeCc/S0= Received: by 10.70.77.17 with SMTP id z17mr5668772wxa.88.1205151717163; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.90.20 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2008 05:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0803100521r5aec3f06p1047c80f67ab2eae@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:21:57 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant leak - the teardown In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19226_26785754.1205151717157" References: ------=_Part_19226_26785754.1205151717157 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chris, Inspect, inspect, inspect. Look for a gouge, pit, or crack in a sealing survace. Look for a nick, gouge, or imperfection in an inner o-ring. Also, it would be a good idea to pressure test the engine before reinstallation in the airframe. Did you use Hysol during the first assembly? My 2-cents, Mark S. On 3/9/08, Christopher Barber wrote: > > So guys, what do y'all think. What do you think is causing the coolant in > the rotor housings. I really want to figure this out before I put the > dang > thing back together. Your help is appreciated. TIA. > > All the best, > > Chris > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Staten" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:29 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Coolant leak - the teardown > > > > Well.. today we tore the engine apart.. the short and sweet of it is > there > > is no obvious source of a coolant leak. > > > > Took the engine apart without too much trouble.. > > > > As we pulled off all the housings we checked the rotor faces, the > grooves, > > the seals and the intake ports for any sign of a leak or blowout. None > was > > forthcoming. I had expected to see a blown out coolant o-ring groove, > but > > all were intact. Felt the intake ports, no sign of a problem there > either. > > I had only ported the center iron, so the other two end irons were > stock. > > So as it stands, we have an engine that is giving us no obvious reason > for > > a coolant leak. The bolts werent loose at all.. they were so snug from > > tape and silicone it took a hammer and vise grips to extract them once > > they were untightened.. So thats the semi good news..... nothing > obvious. > > > > Now the bad news.. > > > > When we took the engine apart, I was concerned about how the rebuild > > itself went.. and how things held up to our first attempt at building > the > > engine. I examined things as we took them apart and paid particular > > attention to the front end. > > > > I was even showing Chris how the front bearings can be a problem if you > > loosen the front bolt and cause a bearing to get pinched.. well the > front > > bearing on the outside of the thrust plate looked fine. Took off the > > thrust plate and discovered that the other bearing had destroyed itself. > > At this point, Chis chimed in that there was metal bits in the oil when > he > > drained it, and lo and behold the bits resembled the roller pins in the > > bearing.. > > > > The spacer had welded itself with the inner ring on the destroyed > bearing, > > forming a spoked wheel, and the inside of the thrust plate had wear > damage > > to it as well. > > > > I am certain i know when this happened. During assembly, everything went > > as it should. end play was ok. I had installed the stock pulley on the > > front at the time of rebuild. After we added the PSRU I was no longer > able > > to check end play, as it secured the engine's flywheel travel. > > > > At some point, we purchased and I added a double pulley, and while i > took > > care not to let things shift around, I am suspecting that this is when > it > > happened. The lesson: don't remove the front nut if you cant check end > > play or put the engine vertical. > > > > The remainder of things looked great - no missing pieces, nothing burnt, > > no gouges... 10 hours of use on the ground and thats what weve found. > > > > Dave > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------=_Part_19226_26785754.1205151717157 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Chris,
Inspect, inspect, inspect.  Look for a gouge, pit, or crack in a sealing survace.  Look for a nick, gouge, or imperfection in an inner o-ring.  Also, it would be a good idea to pressure test the engine before reinstallation in the airframe.  Did you use Hysol during the first assembly? 
 
My 2-cents,
Mark S.     

 
On 3/9/08, Christopher Barber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
So guys, what do y'all think.  What do you think is causing the coolant in
the rotor housings.  I really want to figure this out before I put the dang
thing back together.  Your help is appreciated.  TIA.

All the best,

Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Staten" <Dastaten@earthlink.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Coolant leak - the teardown


> Well.. today we tore the engine apart.. the short and sweet of it is there
> is no obvious source of a coolant leak.
>
> Took the engine apart without too much trouble..
>
> As we pulled off all the housings we checked the rotor faces, the grooves,
> the seals and the intake ports for any sign of a leak or blowout. None was
> forthcoming. I had expected to see a blown out coolant o-ring groove, but
> all were intact. Felt the intake ports, no sign of a problem there either.
> I had only ported the center iron, so the other two end irons were stock.
> So as it stands, we have an engine that is giving us no obvious reason for
> a coolant leak. The bolts werent loose at all.. they were so snug from
> tape and silicone it took a hammer and vise grips to extract them once
> they were untightened.. So thats the semi good news..... nothing obvious.
>
> Now the bad news..
>
> When we took the engine apart, I was concerned about how the rebuild
> itself went.. and how things held up to our first attempt at building the
> engine. I examined things as we took them apart and paid particular
> attention to the front end.
>
> I was even showing Chris how the front bearings can be a problem if you
> loosen the front bolt and cause a bearing to get pinched.. well the front
> bearing on the outside of the thrust plate looked fine. Took off the
> thrust plate and discovered that the other bearing had destroyed itself.
> At this point, Chis chimed in that there was metal bits in the oil when he
> drained it, and lo and behold the bits resembled the roller pins in the
> bearing..
>
> The spacer had welded itself with the inner ring on the destroyed bearing,
> forming a spoked wheel, and the inside of the thrust plate had wear damage
> to it as well.
>
> I am certain i know when this happened. During assembly, everything went
> as it should. end play was ok. I had installed the stock pulley on the
> front at the time of rebuild. After we added the PSRU I was no longer able
> to check end play, as it secured the engine's flywheel travel.
>
> At some point, we purchased and I added a double pulley, and while i took
> care not to let things shift around, I am suspecting that this is when it
> happened. The lesson: don't remove the front nut if you cant check end
> play or put the engine vertical.
>
> The remainder of things looked great - no missing pieces, nothing burnt,
> no gouges... 10 hours of use on the ground and thats what weve found.
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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