X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.106] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2779228 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:41:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.106; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from arptk8ng400 (adsl-18-47-66.mco.bellsouth.net[68.18.47.66]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20080306024059H0600d2kt8e>; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 02:40:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [68.18.47.66] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:40:59 -0500 Message-ID: <919253CE65E64E27A7F64900BE61F60E@ARPTK8NG400> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C87F09.9AE12A20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ach/LubzyGLM24h4SHuFV+Hns+iBCwABILEw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C87F09.9AE12A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How smooth is it, Ed? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Bill, I don't have a Renesis nor a Cato prop. However, I do have a Performance 74x88 prop with a 2.85:1 gear box and a 91 turbo block (sans turbo) 13B. I get 6000 rpm Static and up to 6200 static on a cold day. My MSL is 565 ft. The Renesis should give you about that with your larger prop and more HP assuming you have the 2.85:1, if you hve the 2.17:1 gear box then the mid to upper 5000 rpm is what I would expect once tuned up. FWIW Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users I started the engine after I installed the circuit and ran it for a few minutes just to see if I had screwed something up in the install. My initial impression is that the hesitation is gone and the engine runs much smoother. The A/F ratio seems to be more stable as well. I am working on my cowling at the present time, but as soon as I finish, I will try and get the engine tuned up and we will see how it runs. By the way, I don't have a clue as to what to expect when doing a max static rpm run. I saw on the list the other day where someone with a similar set up, (Renesis, 76 X 88 prop Cato where mine is Performance) was getting 6000 static at a density altitude of 6000 ft and manifold pressure of ~22 inches. My field is at 55 feet. I haven't done any density altitude calculations, but it is going to be close to sea level. I am getting about 5300 at about 30 inches. Does anyone have an opinion about how these numbers might compare? I haven't tried to tune it yet, but it seems to me that the rpms should be closer. I also am getting a pretty good vibration when I run it up. During the above test, for example, I could hardly read my altimeter for the vibration of the needle. I am expecting smoothness with the Renesis. Could this be due to the tuning? I spoke with Clark Lydick. The prop could be the problem, but it is probably not more likely than something else. Opinions?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users The high speed miss/backfire (which can be very violent) is the symptom you might expect to go away in your case. The hesitation is probably unrelated. For that you probably need to richen the mixture at the point where the engine is running prior to the throttle advance. Note that if the engine is leaned out for best economy (using the manual mix control) and you then come down without setting the mixture to 'normal', the hesitation is likely. This is the same as you might get on a Lycoming in the same situation. Always set the mixture to moderately rich after descending or in the pattern. There are several other things that can cause hesitation as well but I don't have enough info to say what your's might be. The unstable mixture might be related but again, not enough info to go on. Tracy On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Tracy, Could you please elaborate a little about some of the symptoms that you have heard or know about that this will cure? My Renesis starts fine, but I get some rough running at speed. I have had backfire once. Also, when I advance the throttle, the engine does a large hesitation before it takes off in a quick rev. Like a car might if it didn't have an accelerator pump. My air/fuel indication seems to be unstable also at speed. Is that related? I put the circuit together this afternoon and will install it, but I am wondering what symptoms I might expect to go away. Thanks, Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Forgot to explain how to connect it. The two leads are to be connected directly across the two leads of the Renesis crank sensor. It can be installed near the sensor, near the EC2 or anywhere in between, whatever is easiest. It is not polarized so it doesn't matter which terminator lead goes to which sensor lead. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: After completing a study of my 20B problems associated with the Renesis trigger wheel and sensor, I am recommending that all users of these parts along with an EC2 engine controller install the sensor termination circuit shown on the attached drawing. The Renesis sensor has different enough characteristics from the 2nd gen sensor that it needs this circuit to properly match it. It replaces the 1000 ohm resistor that some may have already installed. This addresses both the starting problem and the high rpm miss that have occurred in some installations. Tracy ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C87F09.9AE12A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

How smooth is it, Ed?

 

Bill 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March = 05, 2008 9:07 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank sensor users

Bill, I don't have a Renesis nor a Cato prop.  = However, I do have a Performance 74x88 prop with a 2.85:1 gear box and a 91 turbo = block (sans turbo) 13B.

 

I get 6000 rpm Static and up to 6200 static on a cold day.  My MSL is 565 ft.

 

The Renesis should give you  about that = with your  larger prop and more HP  assuming you have the 2.85:1, if you = hve the 2.17:1 gear box then the mid to upper 5000 rpm is what I would = expect once tuned up.

 

FWIW

 

Ed

 

 

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users

 

I started the engine after I installed the circuit and ran it = for a few minutes just to see if I had screwed something up in the install.  = My initial impression is that the hesitation is gone and the engine runs = much smoother.  The A/F ratio seems to be more stable as well.  I = am working on my cowling at the present time, but as soon as I finish, I = will try and get the engine tuned up and we will see how it = runs.

 

By the way, I don’t have a clue as to what to expect when = doing a max static rpm run.  I saw on the list the other day where someone = with a similar set up, (Renesis, 76 X 88 prop Cato where mine is Performance) = was getting 6000 static at a density altitude of 6000 ft and manifold = pressure of ~22 inches.  My field is at 55 feet.  I haven’t done any density altitude calculations, but it is going to be close to sea = level.  I am getting about 5300 at about 30 inches.

Does anyone have an opinion about how these numbers might compare?   I haven’t tried to tune it yet, but it seems = to me that the rpms should be closer.

 

I also am getting a pretty good vibration when I run it = up.  During the above test, for example, I could hardly read my altimeter for = the vibration of the needle.  I am expecting smoothness with the Renesis.  Could this be due to the tuning?  I spoke with Clark Lydick.  The prop could be the problem, but it is probably not more = likely than something else.

 

Opinions??

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Wednesday, March = 05, 2008 7:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank sensor users

The high speed miss/backfire (which can be very violent) is the = symptom you might expect to go away in your case.  The hesitation is = probably unrelated.  For that you probably need to richen the mixture at the = point where the engine is running prior to the throttle = advance.

 

Note that if the engine is leaned out for best economy (using = the manual mix control) and you then come down without setting the mixture = to 'normal', the hesitation is likely.   This is the same as you = might get on a Lycoming in the same situation.  Always set the mixture to moderately rich after descending or in the = pattern.

 

There are several other things that can cause hesitation as well = but I don't have enough info to say what your's might = be.

The unstable mixture might be related but again, not enough info = to go on.

 

Tracy

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

Tracy, =

Could you please elaborate a little about some of the symptoms that you have heard = or know about that this will cure?  My Renesis starts fine, but I get = some rough running at speed.  I have had backfire once.  Also, when = I advance the throttle, the engine does a large hesitation before it takes = off in a quick rev.  Like a car might if it didn't have an accelerator = pump.

My air/fuel indication seems to be unstable also at speed.  Is that = related?

 

I put the circuit together this afternoon and will install it, but I am wondering = what symptoms I might expect to go = away… 

 

Thanks,

 

Bill B

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy = Crook
Sent: Thursday, February = 28, 2008 1:15 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank sensor users

Forgot to explain how to connect it.  = The two leads are to be connected directly across the two leads of the Renesis = crank sensor.  It can be installed near the sensor, near the EC2 or = anywhere in between, whatever is easiest.   It is not polarized so it doesn't matter which terminator lead goes to which sensor = lead.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> = wrote:

After completing a study of my 20B problems associated with the Renesis = trigger wheel and sensor,  I am recommending that all users of these parts along = with an EC2 engine controller install the sensor termination circuit shown on = the attached drawing.

 

The Renesis sensor has different enough characteristics from = the 2nd gen sensor that it needs this circuit to properly match it.  It = replaces the 1000 ohm resistor that some may have already = installed.   This addresses both the starting problem and the high rpm miss that have occurred in some installations.

Tracy =

=

 

 

 

 

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