X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with SMTP id 2432926 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:06:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.199.105; envelope-from=mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 22609 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Oct 2007 19:05:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=ToRStHNR91bqhvw39yRKlgzV/196LXQxM8YyfacfJcqh6mRQ4u/wYiw777sQ0SzDt+AGTa7DGx8VTJS3CzV+4CoFOpEXiD3zzIA2YQrB60GmcE5oXFZyABS47Ch3NFM1GF+jYy/aFDkq6q5eaLz/2LnTHQGTyq7r7gYftDTpFJg=; X-YMail-OSG: MHHi1oUVM1kpuYVP06QsQ4I9vn2QYye9h7KzHgYtifRHWHjgQ1xsVVAYbRwWGCK5GNqmYmazHurb22tg.QSx.iKmEClmA3sAAWk5nVig3tTI4Lxse1I- Received: from [12.41.112.201] by web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:05:28 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.50 YahooMailWebService/0.7.134.12 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael LaFleur Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1721511155-1193339128=:18753" Message-ID: <727800.18753.qm@web81201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1721511155-1193339128=:18753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know that when Ford manufactured alternators for aircraft, they were EXAC= TLY the same alternator as the automotive alternator. They were made on the= same line with the same parts. They only certified qualified the process..= =0A=0AMike LaFleur=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Ed Anderson =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:49:03 PM=0ASubject: [FlyR= otary] Re: 350 lbs dry=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AYour welcome, David. My impressio= n (at that is =0Aall it is ) is that alternators supposedly designed/modif= ied for aircraft =0Ause seem to have more problems that standard Auto alter= nators. I know =0AVan's RVs had a model that was an auto alternator modif= ied for an external =0Aregulator and there was quite a thread on problems w= ith them. Never =0Alistened long enough to find out what the problem was t= hough.=0A=0A =0A=0AEd=0A=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A=0A From: = =0A hoursaway1@comcast.net =0A=0A To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A=0A S= ent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:37 =0A PM=0A=0A Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: 350 lbs =0Adry=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A Thanks Ed, my thoughts were the same, I= work as an auto tech at =0A a Cadillac dealer, specialize in auto trans &= computer controlled sys., =0A put a Tech II diog. tool on my wife's Devil= le & my Chevy PU, drove =0A the heck out of them, then down loaded the inf= o to PC (more mem. & power =0A in PC) then spread the info out & graphed i= t so I could see =0A milliseconds looking for fast spikes in voltage or dr= ops (vacant areas). It =0A was very accurately controlled, (I was told tha= t some aircraft radios were =0A very voltage sensitive & that was my only = concern, not any longer). =0A Thanks again Ed, I'll let you all get back = to the correct topic of this =0A thread, I wish we had weighed our eng. as= sem. before perm. mounting, will be =0A weighing aircraft soon. David R= V-6A Rotary.=0A=0A =0A=0A -------------- =0A Original message -------= ------- =0AFrom: "Ed Anderson" =0A =0A=0A = =0A =0A=0A David, I initially set it up (wired it) so I could add = =0A an external alternator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow w= ith the =0A same alternator for 10 years using the internal regulator wi= thout a =0A problem. I never added the external regulator.=0A=0A = =0A=0A In all the years, I have had automobiles with =0A internally= regulated alternators, I have had a very few fail, but none ever =0A fa= iled in a mode to generate high voltage (always lower voltage). =0A Cer= tainly not to say it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with the =0A = present arrangement.=0A=0A =0A=0A YMMV=0A=0A =0A=0A Ed=0A= =0A =0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A=0A From: =0A hou= rsaway1@comcast.net =0A=0A To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A =0A= =0A Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 =0A 10:52 AM=0A=0A Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs =0A dry=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A Ed;; T= he Mazda alt. that you are useing has the volt. reg. internal, =0A are= you useing an external reg. also, I set up the harness for an external =0A= to be added if needed, do not want to if not needed, how is it workin= g for =0A you. Thanks, David Cook, RV-6A Rotary Lansing MI. =0A = (getting close.)=0A=0A =0A=0A -------------- =0A Origin= al message -------------- =0AFrom: "Ed Anderson" =0A =0A=0A> Don't beat yourself up =0A about 400 lbs. While= we all would like to see our =0A> installations =0A weigh in at 300= lbs - I have not yet seen any credible figures =0A> =0A showing tha= t having happened. I think probably that Perry Mick would =0A come = =0A> the closest when he was flying with no PSRU - just direct =0A d= rive. =0A> =0A> While my early inexperence with aircraft design =0A = led me to the flawed "...if =0A> in doubt, make it stout."" =0A phil= osphy - I just never realized how quickly an =0A> ounce here and =0A = an ounce there would quickly add up to 170 lbs overweight - =0A> did =0A = have 44 lbs of battery, but still heavy. =0A> =0A> In any case, =0A = to make you feel a bit better, here is the breakout of my FWF =0A> = =0A installation 377 lbs dry and 406 wet. =0A> =0A> =0A> Ed =0A = =0A> =0A> Engine Data =0A> =0A> Manufacture: Mazda =0A Model: Rot= ary 13B(6 Port) Serial No: =0A> =0A> Displacement: 80 =0A CID Oil Pr= essure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi =0A> =0A> Rated H.P: =0A 160 at 6500 = RPM =0A> =0A> Weight: =0A> =0A> Dry =0A> =0A =0A> Engine (core) 190 = Lbs (Mazda 13B) =0A> =0A> Starter: 10 =0A Lbs (Toyota Geared) =0A> = =0A> Alternator: 9 Lbs (Mazda 70A) =0A =0A> =0A> Ignition Coils Asse= mbl: 7 Lbs (Mazda) =0A> =0A =0A> Evaporator Cores (2): 7 Lbs (Fitted= with AN-16 Threaded =0A fittings) =0A> =0A> Oil Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl= 's) =0A> =0A> =0A Intake Manifold: 15 Lbs (Machined) =0A> =0A> Fule = Injector Body: =0A 3 Lbs (TWM) =0A> =0A> Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of = 0.032 2034 =0A Alum) =0A> =0A> Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs) =0A>= =0A =0A> Misc. Brakets, Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's Stainless= =0A Steel =0A> Braid/Fittings) =0A> =0A> Exhaust 5 Lbs =0A (= Stainless Steel, D oes not include Muffler) =0A> =0A> Mufflers =0A 1= 6 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo 32" Length, 2 Required, 8 =0A = =0A> lbs each) =0A> =0A> PSRU RWS 2.85:1 42 lbs =0A> =0A =0A> Prop= eller 18 lbs =0A> =0A> Motor mount 19 lbs =0A> =0A =0A> Total (Dry):= 377 Lbs =0A> =0A> Wet =0A> =0A> =0A Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs =0A> =0A= > Oil ( 6 Qts) 13 Lbs =0A> =0A =0A> Total: 406 Lbs =0A> =0A> ----- O= riginal Message ----- =0A =0A> From: "Scott" =0A> To: "Rotary motors= =0A in aircraft" =0A> Sent: Tuesday, =0A October 23, 2007 6:= 31 PM =0A> Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry =0A =0A> =0A> =0A> I fin= ally reached a point when everything was =0A mounted on the engine a= nd =0A> wanted to know the dry weight. It =0A came in at around 350 = pounds. =0A> =0A> Add in a 3 blade IVO =0A prop, oil, and coolant an= d I am at 400 pounds... =0A> =0A> =0A Needless to say that is not wh= at I was ho p ing for as Zenith lists =0A their FWF =0A> for a wet O= 360 with a 2 blade metal prop at 400 =0A pounds. =0A> =0A> What have= others come it at for a dry weight =0A for their 13b setups? =0A> = =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A =0A> _______________________________________= ___________ =0A> Do =0A You Yahoo!? =0A> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail = has the best spam =0A protection around =0A> http://mail.yahoo.com = =0A> =0A> -- =0A =0A> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =0A> Archi= ve and UnSub: =0A =0A> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrot= ary/List.html =0A =0A> =0A> =0A> -- =0A> Homepage: =0A http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/ =0A> Archive and UnSub: =0A http://mail.lancairo= nline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =0A =0A=0A=0A --0-1721511155-1193339128=:18753 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I know that when Ford manufactured alternators for aircraft, they we= re EXACTLY the same alternator as the automotive alternator. They were made= on the same line with the same parts. They only certified qualified the pr= ocess..

Mike LaFleur

----- Original Message ----
F= rom: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24= , 2007 3:49:03 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry

=0A=0A =0A= =0A
Your welcome, David.  My impression (at t= hat  is =0Aall it is ) is that alternators supposedly designed/mo= dified for aircraft =0Ause seem to have more problems that standard Auto al= ternators.  I know =0AVan's RVs  had a model that was an auto alt= ernator modified for an external =0Aregulator and there was quite a thread = on problems with them.  Never =0Alistened long enough to find out what= the problem was though.
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
Ed
=0A
=0A
----- Original Message -----
=0A =0A =0A
Sent:= Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:37 =0A PM
=0A
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs =0Adry
=0A

=
=0A
Thanks Ed, my thoughts were the same, I work as a= n auto tech at =0A a Cadillac dealer, specialize in auto trans & compu= ter controlled sys., =0A put a Tech II diog. tool on my wife's Devill= e & my Chevy PU, drove =0A the heck out of them, then down loaded the = info to PC (more mem. & power =0A in PC) then spread the info out &= ; graphed it so I could see =0A milliseconds looking for fast spikes = in voltage or drops (vacant areas). It =0A was very accurately controlled,= (I was told that some aircraft radios were =0A very voltage sensitive &am= p; that was my only concern, not any longer).  =0A Thanks again Ed, I= 'll let you all get back to the correct topic of this =0A thread, I wish w= e had weighed our eng. assem. before perm. mounting, will be =0A weighing = aircraft soon.  David   RV-6A Rotary.
=0A
 <= /div>=0A
-------------- =0A Original message -= -------------
From: "Ed Anderson" =0A <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&= gt;
=0A =0A =0A=0A
Da= vid, I initially set it up (wired it) so I could add =0A an external alt= ernator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow with the =0A same al= ternator for 10 years using the internal regulator without a =0A problem= .  I never added the external regulator.
=0A
 
=0A
  = In all the years, I have had automobiles with =0A internally regulated a= lternators, I have had a very few fail, but none ever =0A failed in a mo= de to generate high voltage (always lower voltage).  =0A Certainly = not to say it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with the =0A prese= nt arrangement.
=0A
 <= /div>=0A
YMMV
=0A
 
=0A
Ed<= /div>=0A
=0A
----- Original Message --= ---
=0A
<= b>From: =0A hoursaway1@comcast.= net
=0A =0A
Sent: Wednesday, Octo= ber 24, 2007 =0A 10:52 AM
=0A
-------------- =0A = Original message --------------
From: "Ed Anderson" =0A <= eanderson@carolina.rr.com>

> Don't beat yourself up =0A = about 400 lbs. While we all would like to see our
> installations = =0A weigh in at 300 lbs - I have not yet seen any credible figures <= br>> =0A showing that having happened. I think probably that Perr= y Mick would =0A come
> the closest when he was flying with n= o PSRU - just direct =0A drive.
>
> While my early ine= xperence with aircraft design =0A led me to the flawed "...if
&g= t; in doubt, make it stout."" =0A philosphy - I just never realized = how quickly an
> ounce here and =0A an ounce there would quic= kly add up to 170 lbs overweight -
> did =0A have 44 lbs of b= attery, but still heavy.
>
> In any case, =0A to make = you feel a bit better, here is the breakout of my FWF
> =0A i= nstallation 377 lbs dry and 406 wet.
>
>
> Ed =0A =
>
> Engine Data
>
> Manufacture: Mazda =0A = Model: Rotary 13B(6 Port) Serial No:
>
> Displacement: = 80 =0A CID Oil Pressure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi
>
> Ra= ted H.P: =0A 160 at 6500 RPM
>
> Weight:
>
= > Dry
> =0A
> Engine (core) 190 Lbs (Mazda 13B) >
> Starter: 10 =0A Lbs (Toyota Geared)
>
>= Alternator: 9 Lbs (Mazda 70A) =0A
>
> Ignition Coils = Assembl: 7 Lbs (Mazda)
> =0A
> Evaporator Cores (2): 7= Lbs (Fitted with AN-16 Threaded =0A fittings)
>
> Oil= Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl's)
>
> =0A Intake Manifold: 15 Lb= s (Machined)
>
> Fule Injector Body: =0A 3 Lbs (TWM) <= br>>
> Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of 0.032 2034 =0A Alum) >
> Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs)
> =0A
>= ; Misc. Brakets, Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's Stainless =0A Ste= el
> Braid/Fittings)
>
> Exhaust 5 Lbs =0A (Sta= inless Steel, D oes not include Muffler)
>
> Mufflers =0A = 16 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo 32" Length, 2 Required, 8 =0A =
> lbs each)
>
> PSRU RWS 2.85:1 42 lbs
>= =0A
> Propeller 18 lbs
>
> Motor mount 19 lbs =
> =0A
> Total (Dry): 377 Lbs
>
> Wet >
> =0A Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs
>
> Oil ( 6 = Qts) 13 Lbs
> =0A
> Total: 406 Lbs
>
> -= ---- Original Message ----- =0A
> From: "Scott"
> To: = "Rotary motors =0A in aircraft"
> Sent: Tuesday, =0A O= ctober 23, 2007 6:31 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry =0A =
>
>
> I finally reached a point when everything was = =0A mounted on the engine and
> wanted to know the dry weight= . It =0A came in at around 350 pounds.
>
> Add in a 3 = blade IVO =0A prop, oil, and coolant and I am at 400 pounds...
&= gt;
> =0A Needless to say that is not what I was ho p ing for= as Zenith lists =0A their FWF
> for a wet O360 with a 2 blad= e metal prop at 400 =0A pounds.
>
> What have others c= ome it at for a dry weight =0A for their 13b setups?
>
&g= t;
>
>
> =0A
> _________________________= _________________________
> Do =0A You Yahoo!?
> Tired= of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam =0A protection around
> http://mail.ya= hoo.com
>
> -- =0A
> Homepage:= http://www.flyrota= ry.com/
> Archive and UnSub: =0A
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = =0A
>
>
> --
> Homepage: = =0A http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: =0A <= a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html">http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html= =0A
--0-1721511155-1193339128=:18753--