X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2403259 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:31:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071024003111.FQII3242.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:31:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c815d5$1d3cf290$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fuel delivery at WOT Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:30:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C815B3.934103E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C815B3.934103E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, I do not have a Renesis but may have some things for you to check. With the older 13B with the 460 cc/min injectors, you could get full = power to over 6000 rpm on just the primaries along. The Renesis I = understand has smaller primary injectors - like 250 cc/min. I strongly = suspect they would NOT support full power past 6000 rpm perhaps even = less. So I suspect one of the following: 1. Secondary injectors not firing 2. EC2 is not staging to bring on the secondary injectors Your fuel flow does not appear to be the problem because when you hit = the cold start switch you got more fuel - but you didn't say how long = you ran it with the coldstart on - a few seconds or several minutes? If = several minutes, I would say your fuel flow system is probably not the = culprit. The first thing I would check is to make certain all four injectors are = firing. You can do this by selecting Mode 1 and (after making = absolutely certain your fuel pumps are all OFF) hit the program button. = This should start the injector simulation mode - all 4 injectors = clicking away like mad. Using a small wooden/metal rod tube to hold = close to your ear place the other end on each injector - you should hear = all four clicking. If the secondary injectors are not clicking then you = can start your trouble shooting. The injectors could all be working, but for some reason the EC2 is not = staging - don't know what would cause this, but if the staging manifold = pressure were accidentally set to much higher than Tracy recommends, = then you could be running out of fuel from the primaries before the = secondary kick in. Even if the secondary were not working, by turning on the cold start you = would have doubled the pulse to the primaries thereby essentially = doubling your fuel amount injected. Lastly you could have a fuel flow restriction some place in your system. Hope this helps. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel delivery at WOT I have been concerned that I am not getting the static rpm that others = are getting with similar props. I have the stock Renesis with the = Performance Props 76 X 88. I seem to be limited to about 4200 rpm. I = hit 4800 once the other day, but did not know what might have caused the = change. I just finished the install of the pressure overflow bottle per = Lynn's msg of a while back and was running the engine up to try and = eliminate any air that might still be in the engine. I noticed that = when the rpm reached 4200 or so, I still had about an inch of throttle = left. After pondering that for a couple of minutes, I pushed the = throttle to the wall, the engine started to run rough, and I reached = over and flipped the cold start switch on.. =20 Mein Cod!!! =20 It immediately hit 5350! =20 Apparently I am not getting enough fuel flow to support high rpm. I = have not done the self tuning at high rpm yet, but I would not expect = that the fuel flow would be so low as to limit the rpm. =20 =20 What suggestions do you have? My ability to self tune has been = limited due to cooling issues.especially at WOT! =20 Lynn, it is too early to be sure yet, but your idea for the pressure = bottle looks like it is going to help the cooling a lot. It may not be = the complete solution, but it seems to be a step in the right direction. = Thanks! =20 =20 Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C815B3.934103E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, I do not have a Renesis but may have some = things for=20 you to check.
 
With the older 13B with the 460 cc/min = injectors, you=20 could get full power to over 6000 rpm on just the primaries along.  = The=20 Renesis I understand has smaller primary injectors - like 250 = cc/min.  I=20 strongly suspect they would NOT support full power past 6000 rpm perhaps = even=20 less.  So I suspect one of the following:
 
1.  Secondary injectors not = firing
2.  EC2 is not staging to bring on the = secondary=20 injectors
 
Your fuel flow does not appear to be the problem = because=20 when you hit the cold start switch you got more fuel - but you didn't = say how=20 long you ran it with the coldstart on - a few seconds or several = minutes? =20 If several minutes, I would say your fuel flow system is probably not = the=20 culprit.
 
The first thing I would check is to make certain = all four=20 injectors are firing.  You can do this by selecting Mode 1 and = (after=20 making absolutely certain your fuel pumps are all OFF) hit the program=20 button.  This should start the injector simulation mode - all 4 = injectors=20 clicking away like mad.  Using a small wooden/metal rod tube to = hold close=20 to your ear place the other end on each injector - you should hear all = four=20 clicking.  If the secondary injectors are not clicking then you can = start=20 your trouble shooting.
 
The injectors could all be working, but for some = reason=20 the EC2 is not staging - don't know what would cause this, but if the = staging=20 manifold pressure were accidentally set to much higher than Tracy = recommends,=20 then you could be running out of fuel from the primaries before the = secondary=20 kick in.
 
Even if the secondary were not working, by = turning on the=20 cold start you would have doubled the pulse to the primaries thereby = essentially=20 doubling your fuel amount injected.
 
Lastly you could have a fuel flow restriction = some place=20 in your system.
 
 
Hope this helps.
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 = 6:34=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel = delivery at=20 WOT

I have been = concerned=20 that I am not getting the static rpm that others are getting with = similar=20 props.  I have the stock Renesis with the Performance Props 76 X=20 88.  I seem to be limited to about 4200 rpm.  I hit 4800 = once the=20 other day, but did not know what might have caused the change.  I = just=20 finished the install of the pressure overflow bottle per Lynn=92s msg = of a while=20 back and was running the engine up to try and eliminate any air that = might=20 still be in the engine.  I noticed that when the rpm reached 4200 = or so,=20 I still had about an inch of throttle left.  After pondering that = for a=20 couple of minutes, I pushed the throttle to the wall, the engine = started to=20 run rough, and I reached over and flipped the cold start switch=20 on=85.

 

Mein=20 Cod!!!

 

It = immediately hit=20 5350!

 

Apparently = I am not=20 getting enough fuel flow to support high rpm.  I have not done = the self=20 tuning at high rpm yet, but I would not expect that the fuel flow = would be so=20 low as to limit the rpm. 

 

What = suggestions do=20 you have?  My ability to self tune has been limited due to = cooling=20 issues=85especially at WOT!

 

Lynn, it is too = early to=20 be sure yet, but your idea for the pressure bottle looks like it is = going to=20 help the cooling a lot.  It may not be the complete solution, but = it=20 seems to be a step in the right direction. =20 Thanks!

 

 

Bill=20 B

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