X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2375157 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:56:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.2; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) id q.ce3.1d8f0659 (32915) for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:56:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:56:12 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hose clamp myth busters To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1191848172" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5378 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1191848172 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/7/2007 11:13:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, atlasyts@bellsouth.net writes: Maybe this is one of those things that isn't terribly obvious, > but - > having used a variety of screw type clamps - I'm wondering why > plain old spring clamps aren't suitable for this application. I can't > ever remember having one fail in service. (photos below) > > Dale R. > COZY MkIV #0497 > Ch.12; Ch's 13, 16, 19 & 23 in-progress One of my jobs for uncle sugar was to evaluate price overcharging and cost cutting suggestions. Since award money and free time off was involved, I was supposed to be deadly accurate, soothing, diplomatic, generous and answer all submissions within hours. No problem, I developed a collection of boiler plate paragraphs, and some whole responses that were used when hundreds of people would see the same thing and write in about that. I once did a special on hose clamps, because so many people complained about the ordinary looking worm screw style clamp found in any hardware and home store. The main cause was Taiwan and Chinese built replicants that were flooding the auto parts stores. The are a number of methods used in controlling the quality of products used by the military. We have MS or Military Standard drawings, that depict the item to the extent desired by the producer of the drawing. The minimum required features sizes and materials to be used in construction and in some cases colors may be called out. Sizes will be in accordance with the normal system of adding up whole sizes in 1/16" the same as AN hose fittings. A dash 16 would be one inch (16 1/16"ths) one half inch is (8 1/16"ths) and so on. There may or may not be a performance listed, such as holding power, or maximum torque......... Normally this is describing a good quality clamp in common service on production equipment, suitable for a wide range of applications and produced by a number of US and NATO companies. No in process inspections or visits by Government inspectors are required. No Mil-I-45208 called out. These are the ones least likely to get me any action, because these are consumed by the Government by the thousands each month and is a good bread and butter product for the manufacturers. Costs average about $0.20 each. At the other end of the scale is the NAS or National Aerospace standard worm clamp. Done to drawings as above but with a MIL-I-45208 or later quality control system requirement with the additional requirement that sources of supply for materials are called out. Samples of production lots are tested to destruction, in the presence of a Government inspector. Samples of each lot are kept on hand by the manufacturer for a specified length of time up to 40 years. Torques required to produce a specified clamping power may be called out. Drawings for each component site additional requirements. Safety wire features on the worm hex are required. This is one spicy clamp and no doubt, many have found their way onto a Chevy in the parking lot behind the barracks. Low buy quantities and a small number of manufacturers interested in bidding, make prices in the $3.00 to $4.00 area normal. This is a big source of complaints. The best clamps are used on submarines, and may look the same as above with all of those features and the addition of a material traceable to the ore where the material was mined, and a number of requirements for record keeping. I forgot the MIL for Mercury Free, but it involves the certified absence of mercury from production facilities, tooling , mining, transport and packaging. There may be a serialization identification with NSN/Cage Code and date of manufacture in the marking spec. This clamp comes with a box of paper work that has its pedigree. Some of its brothers are never used but stored for the life of the boat as evidence of quality. The cost of one of these clamps is astounding, and I had no access to the data or sources involved but it was a US company. These I had to send on the Navy for resolution. A fire involving even a tiny amount of mercury produces a gas that can reduce your IQ to a dismal number in a few hours. Imagine 100 10 year olds with a 500 megaton capability. If a worm style Name brand clamp junction comes off, it's because you didn't tighten it. Generally you can tighten one until it cuts the end off of the hose. You can drill the worm hex for safety wire on your own. You can lubricate the worm and the thrust flange on the worm before tightening. You loop a short piece of wire under the clamp prior to tightening. Then one end goes through the wire hole and twist. There should never be a failure at a properly designed hose clamped junction. Spring clams? Shame on you. Lynn E. Hanover ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -------------------------------1191848172 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 10/7/2007 11:13:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 atlasyts@bellsouth.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2> =20   Maybe this is one of those things that isn't terribly obvious, = ;=20
> but -
> having used a variety of screw type clamps - I'm=20 wondering why
> plain old spring clamps aren't suitable for this=20 application.  I can't
> ever remember having one fail in=20 service.  (photos below)
>
> Dale R.
> COZY MkIV=20 #0497
> Ch.12; Ch's 13, 16, 19 & 23 in-progress
 
 
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>
 
One of my jobs for uncle sugar was to evaluate price overcharging a= nd=20 cost cutting suggestions. Since award money and free time off was involved,=20= I=20 was supposed to be deadly accurate, soothing, diplomatic, generous = and=20 answer all submissions within hours.
 
No problem, I developed a collection of boiler plate paragraphs, an= d=20 some whole responses that were used when hundreds of people would see the sa= me=20 thing and write in about that.
 
I once did a special on hose clamps, because so many people complai= ned=20 about the ordinary looking worm screw style clamp found in any hardware= and=20 home store. The main cause was Taiwan and Chinese built replicants that= =20 were flooding the auto parts stores.
 
The are a number of methods used in controlling the quality of prod= ucts=20 used by the military.
 
We have MS or Military Standard drawings, that depict the item to t= he=20 extent desired by the producer of the drawing. The minimum required features= =20 sizes and materials to be used in construction and in some cases colors may=20= be=20 called out. Sizes will be in accordance with the normal system of adding up=20 whole sizes in 1/16" the same as AN hose fittings. A dash 16 would be one in= ch=20 (16 1/16"ths)  one half inch is (8 1/16"ths)
and so on. There may or may not be a performance listed, such as=20 holding power, or maximum torque......... 
 
Normally this is describing a good quality clamp in common service=20= on=20 production equipment, suitable for a wide range of applications and produced= by=20 a number of US and NATO companies. No in process inspections or visits by=20 Government inspectors are required. No Mil-I-45208 called out.
These are the ones least likely to get me any action, because these= are=20 consumed by the Government by the thousands each month and is a good bread a= nd=20 butter product for the manufacturers. Costs average 
about $0.20 each.
 
At the other end of the scale is the NAS or National Aerospace stan= dard=20 worm clamp. Done to drawings as above but with a MIL-I-45208 or later qualit= y=20 control system requirement with the additional requirement that
sources of supply for materials are called out. Samples of producti= on=20 lots are tested to destruction, in the presence of a Government inspector.=20 Samples of each lot are kept on hand by the manufacturer for a specified len= gth=20 of time up to 40 years. Torques required to produce a specified clamping pow= er=20 may be called out. Drawings for each component site additional requirements.= =20 Safety wire features on the worm hex are required. This is one spicy clamp a= nd=20 no doubt, many have found their way onto a Chevy in the parking lot behind t= he=20 barracks. Low buy quantities and a small number of manufacturers interested=20= in=20 bidding, make prices in the $3.00 to $4.00 area normal. This is a big=20 source of complaints.
 
The best clamps are used on submarines, and may look the same as ab= ove=20 with all of those features and the addition of a material traceable to the o= re=20 where the material was mined, and a number of requirements for record keepin= g. I=20 forgot the MIL for Mercury Free, but it involves the certified absence=20= of=20 mercury from production facilities, tooling , mining, transport and=20 packaging. There may be a serialization identification with NSN/Cage=20 Code and date of manufacture in the marking spec. This clamp comes with= a=20 box of paper work that has its pedigree. Some of its brothers are never used= but=20 stored for the life of the boat as evidence of quality. The cost of one= of=20 these clamps is astounding, and I had no access to the data or sources=20 involved
but it was a US company. These I had to send on the Navy=20 for resolution.
 
A fire involving even a tiny amount of mercury produces a gas that=20= can=20 reduce your IQ to a dismal number in a few hours. Imagine 100 10 year olds w= ith=20 a 500 megaton capability.
 
If a worm style Name brand clamp junction comes off, it's beca= use=20 you didn't tighten it. Generally you can tighten one until it cuts the end o= ff=20 of the hose. You can drill the worm hex for safety wire on your own.
 
You can lubricate the worm and the thrust flange on the worm before= =20 tightening. You loop a short piece of wire under the clamp prior to tighteni= ng.=20 Then one end goes through the wire hole and twist. There should never be a=20 failure at a properly designed hose clamped junction.
 
Spring clams? Shame on you.
 
 
Lynn E. Hanover   
 



See what's new= at AOL.com an= d Make AOL Your Homepage.
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