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From: "Christopher Barber" <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-2140915@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris' Engine Saga......
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:39:41 -0500
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Thanks guys.  I am about to go out to the hangar and try some more.  The =
fuel pumps are working but I will have to check to make sure fuel is not =
locked downstream.  I checked for spark and it was good, also, with the =
upgraded ECU, I have checked for injectors and I can hear them clicking =
(even though I am concerened that I heard the injectors fireing as if in =
mode 1's test mode while in mode 0 a couple of times when I hit the =
program button to prime)

Ed, thanks, I have a prop (an IVO inflight adjustable job).  I have been =
very mindful of not letting the engine get much past idle.  The eratic =
readings on the EM seem to be just on the EM and not reflecting what the =
engine is doing.  The readings will flash to the higher readings for an =
instant, then change to some other eratic number even though the engine =
is running at a consistant setting.

I still would prefer to check for leaks without the prop, but as you say =
(and is in the manual) little more can be accomplished without the prop. =
 The prop kinda makes it a bit scarier <g>

I willl keep ya posted.  THANKS again.

Chris
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Mark Steitle=20
  To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:21 AM
  Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris' Engine Saga......


  Chris,
  Do you have fuel pressure?  Can you tell if the fuel pump(s) are =
pumping fuel?  If you ran them dry, and don't have the bleeder circuit =
in the fuel rail, then you may have an air lock downstream of the pumps. =
 If that's the case, crack open a fitting downstream of the fuel pump(s) =
and run the pump(s) until they re-prime.  You should only need to run =
the pump for a few seconds before it re-primes.  This is why I installed =
a bleeder circuit on my system.  This would be very bad if it happened =
while flying.  The bleeder circuit does the same thing as cracking a =
fitting to let the trapped air escape.=20

  If you have fuel pressure (pumps primed), then I would check the =
fuses/cb's to the coils and injectors.  Then I would pull a leading plug =
and look at it to see if it is wet (getting fuel).  It may be flooded =
(not likely though).  If you have upgraded your EC-2, you can run the =
injector and coil checks to see if they are working.=20

  Good luck,

  Mark S.

  =20
  On 6/25/07, Christopher Barber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:=20
    I got the EM working on Sunday after work. As I said, I ran out of =
time in the hangar the other day, so when I was able to get back out =
there after work yesterday, I was able to hook the dimmer knob to the =
EM. Turned it up and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew.=20

    I am having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will "bounce" =
from the 3000 rpm range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to 3000. =
Mostly in the 3000 ish range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what is =
causing this yet. Maybe due to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I =
prefer to look for leaks and finish running wires (now that basic wire =
run routing seem to be ok) withOUT a prop turning next to my ear....and =
neck at 3000 rpm. Also, it seems to start great one time and then not =
really want to start at all the next time I try. Geeesh.=20

    Well to follow up, today was one of those good bad days....or bad =
good days. I feel like I got stuff done, but in the end it was =
unsatisfying.

    When I first got to the hangar, I kinda went "what the hell" and =
decided to start the engine. I pushed in all the C/B, all switches up =
(except for the "A" ECU switch and the cold start switch), primary pump =
on, mixture knob rich, hit the start button and immediate start. Loud as =
hell, but it was running. Kewl. Only let it run for a very short time as =
I didn't want it to get too hot to work on. The RPM' readings on the EM =
were still very eradic, but other sensors that I have now connected (oil =
temp, oil pressure, water temp, water pressure) at least were reading =
SOMETHING.....thats a start.=20

    I went about the day making things a bit more secure in the engine =
area running a few more sensor wires a bit more properly, chasing down =
and hopefully securing a couple of known leaks etc and, DAMN IT, before =
I knew what happened, most of the day was gone and Jana was telling me =
it was getting late and we needed to go home to eat (she had been =
watching TV patiently.....uh, this time , on the big screen we have in =
the hangar ever since she had arrived with our dogs after she got off =
work earlier in the afternoon). "Oh, OK, let me finish up a couple of =
things (always) and then let me start it again before we go........here =
baby put on these ear gaurds". Yep, it started, did not run great, but =
it ran, then it seem to run out of gas and stalled. Hmmm, I think I =
really ran out of gas (I only had a few gallons in the sump tank). So, =
we put more gas in, but for the life of me I could not get it to start =
again........seemed to want to start a couple of times, but a few times =
it didn't seem as if it had ever started  . Jana left to go start =
dinner......I stayed for more of the same  . Gee, another hour past =
already, geeezsh, I gotta go, it is getting dark .

    Oh well, at least I get two days off a week, so back again in the =
morning and see what I can do to get it running again and maybe, =
hopefully to consistantly start. <sigh>

    Thoughts and comments are welcome.=20

    All the best,

    Chris

    <Cross posted at the Canard Aviation forum>


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks guys.&nbsp; I am about to go out =
to the=20
hangar and try some more.&nbsp; The fuel pumps are working but I will =
have to=20
check to make sure fuel is not locked downstream.&nbsp; I checked for =
spark and=20
it was good, also, with the upgraded ECU, I have checked for injectors =
and I can=20
hear them clicking (even though I am concerened that I heard the =
injectors=20
fireing as if&nbsp;in mode 1's test mode while&nbsp;in mode 0 a couple =
of times=20
when I hit the program button to prime)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ed, thanks, I have a prop (an IVO =
inflight=20
adjustable job).&nbsp; I have been very mindful of not letting the =
engine get=20
much past idle.&nbsp; The eratic readings on the EM seem to be just on =
the EM=20
and not reflecting what the engine is doing.&nbsp; The readings will =
flash to=20
the higher readings for an instant, then change to some other eratic =
number even=20
though the engine is running at a consistant setting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I still would prefer to check for leaks =
without the=20
prop, but as you say (and is in the manual) little more can be =
accomplished=20
without the prop.&nbsp; The prop kinda makes it a bit scarier=20
&lt;g&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I willl keep ya posted.&nbsp; THANKS=20
again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmsteitle@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:msteitle@gmail.com">Mark =
Steitle</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dflyrotary@lancaironline.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">Rotary motors in =
aircraft</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 26, 2007 =
7:21=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [FlyRotary] Re: Chris' =
Engine=20
  Saga......</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Chris,</DIV>
  <DIV>Do you have fuel pressure?&nbsp; Can you tell if the fuel pump(s) =
are=20
  pumping fuel?&nbsp; If you ran them dry, and don't have the bleeder =
circuit in=20
  the fuel rail, then you may have an air lock downstream of the =
pumps.&nbsp; If=20
  that's the case, crack open a fitting downstream of the fuel pump(s)=20
  and&nbsp;run the pump(s) until they =
re-prime.&nbsp;&nbsp;You&nbsp;should only=20
  need to run the pump for a few seconds before it re-primes.&nbsp; This =
is why=20
  I installed&nbsp;a bleeder circuit on my system.&nbsp; This would be =
very bad=20
  if it happened while flying.&nbsp; The bleeder circuit does the same =
thing as=20
  cracking a fitting to let the trapped&nbsp;air escape. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>If you have fuel pressure (pumps primed), then I would check the=20
  fuses/cb's to the coils and injectors.&nbsp; Then I would pull a =
leading plug=20
  and look at it to see if it is wet (getting fuel).&nbsp; It may be =
flooded=20
  (not likely though).&nbsp; If you have upgraded your EC-2, you can run =
the=20
  injector and coil checks to see if they are working. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Good luck,</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Mark S.<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote>On 6/25/07, <B =
class=3Dgmail_sendername>Christopher=20
  Barber</B> &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:CBarber@texasattorney.net">CBarber@texasattorney.net</A>&g=
t;=20
  wrote:</SPAN>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">
    <DIV bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got the EM working on Sunday =
after work. As I=20
    said, I ran out of time in the hangar the other day, so when I was =
able to=20
    get back out there after work yesterday, I was able to hook the =
dimmer knob=20
    to the EM. Turned it up and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew.=20
    <BR><BR>I am having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will =
"bounce"=20
    from the 3000 rpm range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to =
3000.=20
    Mostly in the 3000 ish range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what =
is=20
    causing this yet. Maybe due to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I =
prefer=20
    to look for leaks and finish running wires (now that basic wire run =
routing=20
    seem to be ok) withOUT a prop turning next to my ear....and neck at =
3000=20
    rpm. Also, it seems to start great one time and then not really want =
to=20
    start at all the next time I try. Geeesh. <BR><BR>Well to follow up, =
today=20
    was one of those good bad days....or bad good days. I feel like I =
got stuff=20
    done, but in the end it was unsatisfying.<BR><BR>When I first got to =
the=20
    hangar, I kinda went "what the hell" and decided to start the =
engine. I=20
    pushed in all the C/B, all switches up (except for the "A" ECU =
switch and=20
    the cold start switch), primary pump on, mixture knob rich, hit the =
start=20
    button and immediate start. Loud as hell, but it was running. Kewl. =
Only let=20
    it run for a very short time as I didn't want it to get too hot to =
work on.=20
    The RPM' readings on the EM were still very eradic, but other =
sensors that I=20
    have now connected (oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, water =
pressure) at=20
    least were reading SOMETHING.....thats a start. <BR><BR>I went about =
the day=20
    making things a bit more secure in the engine area running a few =
more sensor=20
    wires a bit more properly, chasing down and hopefully securing a =
couple of=20
    known leaks etc&nbsp;and, DAMN IT, before I knew what happened, most =
of the=20
    day was gone and Jana was telling me it was getting late and we =
needed to go=20
    home to eat (she had been watching TV patiently.....uh, this time =
<IMG=20
    title=3D"Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)" alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif"=20
    border=3D0>, on the big screen we have in the hangar ever since she =
had=20
    arrived with our dogs after she got off work earlier in the =
afternoon). "Oh,=20
    OK, let me finish up a couple of things (always) and then let me =
start it=20
    again&nbsp;before we go........here baby put on these ear gaurds". =
Yep, it=20
    started, did not run great, but it ran, then it seem to run out of =
gas and=20
    stalled. Hmmm, I think I really ran out of gas (I only had a few =
gallons in=20
    the sump tank). So, we put more gas in, but for the life of me I =
could not=20
    get it to start again........seemed to want to start a couple of =
times, but=20
    a few times it didn't seem as if it had ever started <IMG =
title=3Dbanghead=20
    alt=3D"" =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0><IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0><IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0> <IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0>. Jana left to go start dinner......I stayed for more of =
the=20
    same<IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0> <IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0><IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0><IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0> . Gee, another hour past already, geeezsh, I gotta go, =
it is=20
    getting dark<IMG title=3Dbanghead alt=3D""=20
    =
src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/banghead.gif"=20
    border=3D0><IMG title=3DFrown alt=3D""=20
    src=3D"http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net/images/smilies/frown.gif" =
border=3D0>=20
    .<BR><BR>Oh well, at least&nbsp;I&nbsp;get two days off a week, so =
back=20
    again in the morning and see what I can do to get it running again =
and=20
    maybe, hopefully to consistantly start. &lt;sigh&gt;<BR><BR>Thoughts =
and=20
    comments are welcome. <BR><BR>All the =
best,<BR><BR>Chris</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&lt;Cross posted&nbsp;at the Canard =
Aviation=20
    =
forum&gt;</FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>

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