X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2137351 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:21:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5OEKXsY008199 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101c7b66a$e58bee10$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Method of Killing the engine [FlyRotary] ECU/EM upgraded...a couple of questions Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:21:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7B649.5E2E02D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7B649.5E2E02D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris, Good to hear the rotary is humming again. Can't help you on the EM = although without anything showing on the screen I would agree that power = is the first place to start trouble shooting. Unplug the EM2, determine = which pin of the plug should have power and test with a volt meter with = the power switch on. If that is OK, next check to see if the grounding = pin is actually grounded. You could have power to the EM2, but if you = have no ground, then you will have no current flow. Regarding shut down. You will never get immediate engine stoppage by = shutting off the fuel pumps. The reason shutting down the fuel pumps = does not result in immediate engine stoppage, is that you still have = pressurized fuel remaining in the injector hoses and, of course, the = injectors are still firing. Since you are presumably at idle rpm, there = is only small amounts of fuel required to keep the engine running and = this means the engine will keep running until that fuel is depleted - = sometimes for a number of seconds - it all depends on the volume of fuel = in those hoses and fittings.. =20 I agree killing the ignition can lead to a small amount of fuel pumped = in - whether its enough to flood the engine, I doubt it. However, I = used the injector disable switches which when turned off - kills the = engine immediately because, of course, the injectors stop firing = immediately. Turning off the EC2 would accomplish the same thing. =20 While its true if you have a leaking injector this method (turning off = the injectors) could lead to flooding of the engine, I would suggest = that this would be a welcomed warning of a potentially failing injector = - better to find that out on the ground by a flooded engine than in the = air. But, that is just my opinion. Another reason why I favor the "kill the injector" method is for safety = also. If someone approached the spinning prop, my immediate reaction = would be my normal method of killing the engine, chopping down on the = injector disable switches. The engine will stop within one revolution = of the blade using this method whereas if your habit is to kill the fuel = pumps the engine will continue for a number of revolutions. The chances = of this happening are remote - but not zero. Just something to = consider. Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Christopher Barber" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] ECU/EM upgraded...a couple of questions >I got my ECU and EM back yesterday and installed the ECU. It was really = nice > to have the upgrade that allows diagnostic modes. Hit the button and = you can > really hear the injectors clicking as if you are at 3000 RPM's. Very > reassuring >=20 > The engine started after only a couple of minutes the first time and = then > started easily after that. As a matter of fact, it is stopping the = engine > that has been curious. I will turn the fuel pump off but the engine = will > continue to run for several minutes after the pumps are off (I can = still > kill the system by flicking the coils/injectors off but I believe this = can > lead to flooding and is "bad form"). Actually, the engine really sound = nice > just before it does stop due to fuel starvation....yeah, I think I am > running really rich 'cause when I lean, it really smoothes out. >=20 > I am having a another problem though which is really bugging me. I = can't > seem to get the EM (Engine Monitor) to come online. The screen remains > blank. This is the same as was happening before I sent it and the ECU = back > to Tracy for upgrade. Tracy ok'ed the units, but my screen is still = blank. > It seems to not be getting any power. I have checked and rechecked = the > wires. I do NOT have all the sensors hooked up yet, but it is my > understanding that all you should need is power and the data in/data = out and > you should get some base readings. >=20 > I was stupidly careful about having all power disconnected and made a > cursory investigation as to the grounds before time ran out. Does the = unit > have an "on" switch that I am missing, or does it come up when ships = power > is applied? >=20 > Please, what am I missing? I would really like to see what is actually > happening in my engine. I would also feel ok to run it longer if the = reading > seem "normal"....or at least workable. But, until I can get the = monitor up > the engine tweaking is limited. >=20 > I was only able to "play" with it a few minutes before I had to go = home and > go to bed (4:30 am comes very early, and yes, I work weekends.....but = I am > off tomorrow and Tuesday ), so I still need to investigate. = However, > anything obvious that jumps out at y'all that could help is = appreciated. >=20 > Thanks again. >=20 > All the best, >=20 > Chris >=20 > Christopher Barber > Attorney and Counselor at Law > 5110 Bissonnet, No 418 > Bellaire, Texas 77401 >=20 > Serving the Needs of Senior Texans >=20 > 281-464-LAWS (5297) > 281-754-4168 Fax > www.TexasAttorney.net >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7B649.5E2E02D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Chris,
 
Good to hear the rotary is humming again.  = Can't help=20 you on the EM although without anything showing on the screen I would = agree that=20 power is the first place to start trouble shooting.  Unplug the = EM2,=20 determine which pin of the plug should have power and test with a volt = meter=20 with the power switch on.  If that is OK, next check to see if the=20 grounding pin is actually grounded.  You could have power to the = EM2, but=20 if you have no ground, then you will have no current flow.
 
 
Regarding shut down.  You will never get = immediate=20 engine stoppage by shutting off the fuel pumps.   The reason = shutting=20 down the fuel pumps does not result in immediate engine stoppage, is = that you=20 still have pressurized fuel remaining in the injector hoses and, of = course, the=20 injectors are still firing.  Since you are presumably at idle rpm, = there is=20 only small amounts of fuel required to keep the engine running and = this=20 means the engine will keep running until that fuel is depleted - = sometimes for a=20 number of seconds - it all depends on the volume of fuel in those hoses = and=20 fittings.. 
 
I agree killing the ignition can lead to a small = amount of=20 fuel pumped in - whether its enough to flood the engine, I doubt = it. =20 However, I used the injector disable switches which when turned off - = kills the=20 engine immediately because, of course, the injectors stop firing=20 immediately. Turning off the EC2 would accomplish the same = thing. =20
 
 While its true if you have a leaking = injector this=20 method (turning off the injectors)  could lead to flooding of the = engine, I=20 would suggest that this would be a welcomed warning of a potentially = failing=20 injector - better to find that out on the ground by a flooded = engine than=20 in the air.  But, that is just my opinion.
 
Another reason why I favor the "kill the = injector" method=20 is for safety also.  If someone approached the spinning prop, my = immediate=20 reaction would be my normal method of killing the engine, chopping down = on the=20 injector disable switches.  The engine will stop within one = revolution of=20 the blade using this method whereas if your habit is to kill the fuel = pumps the=20 engine will continue for a number of revolutions.  The chances of = this=20 happening are remote - but not zero.  Just something to=20 consider.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Barber" <CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:48 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] ECU/EM upgraded...a couple = of=20 questions

>I got my = ECU and EM=20 back yesterday and installed the ECU. It was really nice
> to have = the=20 upgrade that allows diagnostic modes. Hit the button and you can
> = really=20 hear the injectors clicking as if you are at 3000 RPM's.  = Very
>=20 reassuring
>
> The engine started after only a couple of = minutes=20 the first time and then
> started easily after that. As a matter = of fact,=20 it is stopping the engine
> that has been curious. I will turn the = fuel=20 pump off but the engine will
> continue to run for several minutes = after=20 the pumps are off (I can still
> kill the system by flicking the=20 coils/injectors off but I believe this can
> lead to flooding and = is "bad=20 form"). Actually, the engine really sound nice
> just before it = does stop=20 due to fuel starvation....yeah, I think I am
> running really rich = 'cause=20 when I lean, it really smoothes out.
>
> I am having a = another=20 problem though which is really bugging me. I can't
> seem to get = the EM=20 (Engine Monitor) to come online. The screen remains
> blank. This = is the=20 same as was happening before I sent it and the ECU back
> to Tracy = for=20 upgrade. Tracy ok'ed the units, but my screen is still blank.
> It = seems=20 to not be getting any power.  I have checked and rechecked = the
>=20 wires. I do NOT have all the sensors hooked up yet, but it is my
> = understanding that all you should need is power and the data in/data out = and
> you should get some base readings.
>
> I was = stupidly=20 careful about having all power disconnected and made a
> cursory=20 investigation as to the grounds before time ran out.  Does the = unit
>=20 have an "on" switch that I am missing, or does it come up when ships=20 power
> is applied?
>
> Please, what am I missing? I = would=20 really like to see what is actually
> happening in my engine. I = would also=20 feel ok to run it longer if the reading
> seem "normal"....or at = least=20 workable. But, until I can get the monitor up
> the engine = tweaking is=20 limited.
>
> I was only able to "play" with it a few = minutes before=20 I had to go home and
> go to bed (4:30 am comes very early, and = yes, I=20 work weekends.....but I am
> off tomorrow and Tuesday = <yea>), so I=20 still need to investigate. However,
> anything obvious that jumps = out at=20 y'all that could help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks = again.
>=20
> All the best,
>
> Chris
>
> = Christopher=20 Barber
> Attorney and Counselor at Law
> 5110 Bissonnet, No=20 418
> Bellaire, Texas 77401
>
> Serving the Needs of = Senior=20 Texans
>
> 281-464-LAWS (5297)
> 281-754-4168 = Fax
>=20 www.TexasAttorney.net
> =
>=20
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive=20 and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7B649.5E2E02D0--