X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 50 [XX] (30%) URL: contains host with port number (30%) BODY: contains "rx" (15%) HEADERS: mail has MS Outlook properties but missing "Outlook" in "X-Mailer" Headers (-27%) URL: weird port adjustment Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc1-s26.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.98] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2039254 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 12 May 2007 02:28:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.98; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.78]) by bay0-omc1-s26.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 11 May 2007 23:27:54 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 11 May 2007 23:27:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.150.206 by BAY115-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 12 May 2007 04:31:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.150.206] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 00:30:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0151_01C7942C.CFD08690" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 12 May 2007 00:30:58 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2007 06:27:15.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[956F6250:01C7945E] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0151_01C7942C.CFD08690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 Tracy, what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I get the = essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with a = C/S prop? That it does not work on a dyno? Would you please care to clear up the "smoke".... How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is calling = there system) You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot more for a = FADEC? Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that controlled = by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed... Best Regards, TJ Hi TJ, Smoke is very hard to clear up. Visibility here in Fla was less than = 1/4 mile all day. I thought it was the fires in Georgia & N. Florida = but it is possible that it was from a certain Email list purveyor in = California :-0 Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with the EC2 is = just that - Smoke. The engine load is accurately reflected by Manifold = pressure and RPM. These are the primary inputs to the EC2 so it has no = problem tracking the variations caused by a CS prop. I don't have the = time to elaborate but it is actually harder to match the fuel = requirements of a fixed pitch prop in most circumstances. The changes = in volumetric efficiency due to rpm change are eliminated with a CS = prop. The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one which I = will abbreviate out of necessity. It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark Supenski's P Port = engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run before). = As it happens, there is no manifold on an engine in this configuration = so it is difficult to measure manifold pressure. Where are you going to = get manifold pressure from? (did I mention that manifold pressure was a = primary input to the EC2?) To make matters worse, Paul was so confident = in his abilities to make anything work (even an EFI system that he had = zero experience with) that he didn't bother to take the EC2 instructions = with him to Mazdatrix. Given these circumstances, it was no surprise = that the dyno run was a dismal failure. Dave at Mazdatrix yanked = everything off the engine, put a webber carb and manifold on it and got = it running in order to get a pull on the dyno. And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by = extension, with a CS prop) was born. =20 Tracy=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 question Tracy, what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I get the = essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with a = C/S prop? That it does not work on a dyno? Would you please care to clear up the "smoke".... How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is calling = there system) You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot more for = a FADEC? Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed... Best Regards, TJ =20 On 5/10/07, Al Gietzen > = wrote:=20 On Thu, 10 May 2007 09:31:30 -0800 "Al Gietzen" > wrote: > > BTW; preliminary results indicate that the issue I've had with the > spontaneous changes of settings has been resolved. > Al > What was causing it?=20 Bob W. -------------------- Don't know exactly. Added additional filtering on the circuit board = : 1000pf capacitors were added to: All fuel injector signals All ignition control signals=20 RX input TX output 47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each processor Pin 8 of connector is now grounded. Pin 28 of connector is now grounded. Al -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0151_01C7942C.CFD08690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Jakits

Tracy,
 
what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I = get the=20 essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with a = C/S=20 prop?
That it does not work on a dyno?
Would you please care to clear up the "smoke"....
 
How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is = calling there=20 system)
You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot more = for a=20 FADEC?
 
Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled by=20 single lever), no mixture adjustment needed...
 
Best Regards,
 
TJ
Hi TJ,
 
Smoke is very hard to clear up.   Visibility here in Fla = was less=20 than 1/4 mile all day.  I thought it was the fires in Georgia & = N.=20 Florida but it is possible that it was from a certain Email list = purveyor in=20 California :-0
 
Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with the = EC2 is=20 just that - Smoke.   The engine load is = accurately reflected by=20 Manifold pressure and RPM.  These are the primary inputs to the EC2 = so it=20 has no problem tracking the variations caused by a CS prop.  I = don't have=20 the time to elaborate but it is actually harder to match the fuel=20 requirements of a fixed pitch prop in most circumstances.  The = changes=20 in volumetric efficiency due to rpm change are eliminated with a CS = prop.
 
The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one = which I=20 will abbreviate out of necessity.
 
 It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark = Supenski's P=20 Port engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run=20 before).   As it happens, there is no manifold on an engine in = this=20 configuration so it is difficult to measure manifold pressure.  = Where are=20 you going to get manifold pressure from?  (did I mention that = manifold=20 pressure was a primary input to the EC2?)  To make matters worse, = Paul was=20 so confident in his abilities to make anything work (even an EFI system = that he=20 had zero experience with) that he didn't bother to take the = EC2=20 instructions with him to Mazdatrix.    Given these = circumstances,=20 it was no surprise that the dyno run was a dismal failure.  Dave at = Mazdatrix yanked everything off the engine, put a webber carb and = manifold on it=20 and got it running in order to get a pull on the dyno.
 
And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by = extension,=20 with a CS prop) was born. 
 
Tracy 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Jakits
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 = 7:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2=20 question

Tracy,
 
what was this talk (some time ago on the other list, .....I = get the=20 essential stuff, but delayed...) that your EC2 is not compatible with = a C/S=20 prop?
That it does not work on a dyno?
Would you please care to clear up the "smoke"....
 
How far is your EC2 from a true FADEC (or whatever Mistral is = calling=20 there system)
You are already trying the Fly-by-wire throttle - is it a lot = more for a=20 FADEC?
 
Single power-lever (maybe the prop-rpm separate or even that = controlled=20 by single lever), no mixture adjustment needed...
 
Best Regards,
 
TJ

 
On 5/10/07, Al=20 Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> = wrote:=20
On=20 Thu, 10 May 2007 09:31:30 -0800
"Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net >=20 wrote:


>
> BTW; preliminary results indicate = that the=20 issue I've had with the
> spontaneous changes of settings has = been=20 resolved.

> Al
>
<snip>

What was = causing it?=20

Bob W.
--------------------

Don't know=20 exactly.  Added additional filtering on the circuit board=20 :

1000pf capacitors were added to:

All fuel injector=20 signals
All ignition control signals
RX input
TX=20 output

47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each = processor

Pin 8=20 of connector is now grounded.
Pin 28 of connector is now=20 grounded.

Al


--
Homepage:  =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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