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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-1321311@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: DoorOpenLside.jpg
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:06:00 -0400
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Not a bad idea, Ben. They would slow down the opening a bit, but would =
probably slow down the closing even more. I'll check into it.
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ben Schneider=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: DoorOpenLside.jpg
A possible solution might be to put restrictors directly on the =
cylinders. Thus lowering the risk by eliminating the hose as a factor. =
(would still be a factor, but should not slam shut in the event of a =
hose break) Just a thought.
Ben Schneider
Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Ben, good question concerning safety. The door hydraulic =
cylinders are single acting push-only. A restrictor valve holds the =
door open and a push of a button opens the value to let the fluid back =
into the tank thereby lowering the doors. The doors do not slam down =
but do come down within 10-15 seconds (will have to time and see exactly =
how long it takes).
But, regardless of double acting or single acting if a hose breaks =
you could be in trouble as you suggest. I intend to have 9-10 foot =
pipes attached to main beam that when the door is open, I can pull down =
and set to hold the door up. That way should a hose fail the door won't =
slam down. These are 4000 psi bursting lines with 450 psi maximum =
pressure - so hopefully I am not over stressing them.
It could certainly ruin your day to have that door come down on you.
Thanks for mentioning it - safety is always a high concern.
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ben Schneider=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: DoorOpenLside.jpg
Ed,
A question out of curiosity, Do you have the hydraulics set up =
so that the door is power up, and power down, or is it just gravity =
down? Reason I ask is in the event of a hose or pipe break, that the =
door does not come crashing down. That it would stay in place, or at =
least a restrictor so as to let the door down very gently. Because, if =
your luck is anything like mine, the airplane would likely be passing =
under it at the time. Not to mention the safety issue. Just curious. =
Personally, I think the hydraulic single panel door is the only way to =
go, provided it is done safely. Just my opinion.
Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:=20
Hi David,
You are right on all counts, fortunately- it is not a timber =
beam. Its=20
actually a engineered box beam very similar to wooden spars =
built for=20
aircraft. But, without quite as much attention to weight savings =
{:>). I=20
used Liquid Nails Subfloor adhesive after discussing my =
project/needs with=20
their technical staff (learned a bit about wood glues/adhesives) =
and deck=20
screws to build the beam. It weighs around 180 lbs.
Its basically a warren truss enclosed in plywood. It just took =
less work=20
(more lumber, but less work), to have the building material =
store cut me 16"=20
wide strips of plywood (4 to a sheet) and then use those as the =
webs rather=20
than cutting out the gussets necessary for each brace/flange =
interface to=20
build an wooden open warren or Pratt truss. It would be =
interesting to see=20
how light the beam could be made, but I've been working on =
building hangars=20
and doors since around March and wanted to see the light at the =
end of the=20
tunnel {:>). Besides, I can't fly until the door is finished as =
my aircraft=20
is trapped inside!!!
Appreciate your comments
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "david mccandless"=20
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:23 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: DoorOpenLside.jpg
> Hi Ed,
> I do not need a door nor a hangar, but as the discussion =
progresses I am=20
> becoming more interested.
> I would have thought that a Warren type truss, fabricated =
from, say, 3=20
> inch channel for chords and 2 inch angle for webs, would have =
been a=20
> better and lighter solution than a timber beam.
> Is that big center beam a laminated truss or a plywood =
fabricated beam?
> I am an old structural engineer from 40 years ago, I have a =
lifelong love=20
> of bridges, and have never loss my interest in beams etc, so =
this is not=20
> meant to be criticism but rather to satisfy my own curiosity.
> BR, Dave McC
>
> On 14, Aug , at 5:51 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>> I am convinced (but have not done a comparative analysis) =
that this=20
>> arrangement does produce less outward force on the top of the =
door=20
>> frame/hanger than a bi-fold. The hydraulic ram ends up at a =
47 deg angle=20
>> to the ground and so supports approx 70.7 % of the door =
weight. If the=20
>> door weighed 600 lbs finished then I estimate the door frame =
would=20
>> support approx 200 lbs and the ram 400 lbs. Since the =
"balance" point of=20
>> the door is along the axis of the beam this should mean very =
small=20
>> outward forces once the beam is raised.
>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>=20
--
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Not a bad idea, Ben. They would slow down =
the=20
opening a bit, but would probably slow down the closing even more. =
I'll=20
check into it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dplumberben@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:plumberben@yahoo.com">Ben=20
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dflyrotary@lancaironline.net=20
href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">Rotary motors in =
aircraft</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 13, 2006 =
10:03=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [FlyRotary] Re: =
Emailing:=20
DoorOpenLside.jpg</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>A possible solution might be to put restrictors =
directly on the=20
cylinders. Thus lowering the risk by eliminating the hose as a factor. =
(would=20
still be a factor, but should not slam shut in the event of a hose =
break) Just=20
a thought.<BR><BR>Ben Schneider<BR><BR><B><I>Ed Anderson <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com">eanderson@carolina.rr.com</A>&g=
t;</I></B>=20
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Hi Ben, good question concerning =
safety. =20
The door hydraulic cylinders are single acting push-only. A =
restrictor=20
valve holds the door open and a push of a button opens the value to =
let the=20
fluid back into the tank thereby lowering the doors. The doors =
do not=20
slam down but do come down within 10-15 seconds (will have to time =
and see=20
exactly how long it takes).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>But, regardless of double acting or single =
acting if a=20
hose breaks you could be in trouble as you suggest. I intend =
to have=20
9-10 foot pipes attached to main beam that when the door is open, I =
can pull=20
down and set to hold the door up. That way should a hose fail =
the door=20
won't slam down. These are 4000 psi bursting lines with 450 =
psi=20
maximum pressure - so hopefully I am not over stressing =
them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>It could certainly ruin your day to have =
that door=20
come down on you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Thanks for mentioning it - safety is always =
a high=20
concern.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal">-----=20
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: =
initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: =
initial"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dplumberben@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:plumberben@yahoo.com">Ben=20
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><B>To:</B>=20
<A title=3Dflyrotary@lancaironline.net=20
href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">Rotary motors in =
aircraft</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><B>Sent:</B>=20
Sunday, August 13, 2006 8:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: =
normal"><B>Subject:</B>=20
[FlyRotary] Re: Emailing: DoorOpenLside.jpg</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed,<BR><BR> A question out of =
curiosity, Do you=20
have the hydraulics set up so that the door is power up, and power =
down,=20
or is it just gravity down? Reason I ask is in the event of a hose =
or pipe=20
break, that the door does not come crashing down. That it would =
stay in=20
place, or at least a restrictor so as to let the door down very=20
gently. Because, if your luck is anything like mine, the =
airplane=20
would likely be passing under it at the time. Not to mention the =
safety=20
issue. Just curious. Personally, I think the hydraulic =
single panel=20
door is the only way to go, provided it is done safely. Just my=20
opinion.<BR><BR><B><I>Ed Anderson=20
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com></I></B> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Hi=20
David,<BR><BR>You are right on all counts, fortunately- it is =
not a=20
timber beam. Its <BR>actually a engineered box beam very similar =
to=20
wooden spars built for <BR>aircraft. But, without quite as much=20
attention to weight savings {:>). I <BR>used Liquid Nails =
Subfloor=20
adhesive after discussing my project/needs with <BR>their =
technical=20
staff (learned a bit about wood glues/adhesives) and deck =
<BR>screws to=20
build the beam. It weighs around 180 lbs.<BR><BR>Its basically a =
warren=20
truss enclosed in plywood. It just took less work <BR>(more =
lumber, but=20
less work), to have the building material store cut me 16" =
<BR>wide=20
strips of plywood (4 to a sheet) and then use those as the webs =
rather=20
<BR>than cutting out the gussets necessary for each brace/flange =
interface to <BR>build an wooden open warren or Pratt truss. It =
would be=20
interesting to see <BR>how light the beam could be made, but =
I've been=20
working on building hangars <BR>and doors since around March and =
wanted=20
to see the light at the end of the <BR>tunnel {:>). Besides, =
I can't=20
fly until the door is finished as my aircraft <BR>is trapped=20
inside!!!<BR><BR>Appreciate your comments<BR><BR>Ed<BR><BR>----- =
Original Message ----- <BR>From: "david mccandless" <DAVAL=20
@iprimus.com.au=3D""><BR>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =
<FLYROTARY=20
@lancaironline.net=3D""><BR>Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 6:23=20
PM<BR>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Emailing:=20
DoorOpenLside.jpg<BR><BR><BR>> Hi Ed,<BR>> I do not need a =
door=20
nor a hangar, but as the discussion progresses I am <BR>> =
becoming=20
more interested.<BR>> I would have thought that a Warren type =
truss,=20
fabricated from, say, 3 <BR>> inch channel for chords and 2 =
inch=20
angle for webs, would have been a <BR>> better and lighter =
solution=20
than a timber beam.<BR>> Is that big center beam a laminated =
truss or=20
a plywood fabricated beam?<BR>> I am an old structural =
engineer from=20
40 years ago, I have a lifelong love <BR>> of bridges, and =
have never=20
loss my interest in beams etc, so this is not <BR>> meant to =
be=20
criticism but rather to satisfy my own curiosity.<BR>> BR, =
Dave=20
McC<BR>><BR>> On 14, Aug , at 5:51 AM, Ed Anderson=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> I am convinced (but have not done a=20
comparative analysis) that this <BR>>> arrangement does =
produce=20
less outward force on the top of the door <BR>>> =
frame/hanger than=20
a bi-fold. The hydraulic ram ends up at a 47 deg angle =
<BR>>> to=20
the ground and so supports approx 70.7 % of the door weight. If =
the=20
<BR>>> door weighed 600 lbs finished then I estimate the =
door=20
frame would <BR>>> support approx 200 lbs and the ram 400 =
lbs.=20
Since the "balance" point of <BR>>> the door is along the =
axis of=20
the beam this should mean very small <BR>>> outward forces =
once=20
the beam is raised.<BR>><BR>><BR>> --<BR>> Homepage: =
http://www.flyrotary.com/<BR>> Archive and UnSub:=20
http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/<BR>>=20
<BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Homepage: =
http://www.flyrotary.com/<BR>Archive and=20
UnSub:=20
=
http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/<BR></FLYROTARY></DAVAL></B=
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