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Ed is correct, the 'log' manifold (I usually refer to it as a ram tuned,
open plenum manifold) is making more peak power but there are compromises
(aren't there always?) It is also very light and fairly easy to
fabricate, factors which should never be ignored. A perfect manifold
that you can't build isn't worth much.
The compromises (of the ram tuned) are not particularly bad on a light
and relatively clean plane like the RV-4 but they could be on other
installations.
The peak power is only available in one scenario - WOT at sea level, with
plane at top speed, close to standard day conditions and a properly
matched prop (fixed pitch). Take away any one factor and my
earlier wrap-over dynamic chamber manifold would 'win'. It had a
much broader power range than the straight ram tuned manifold I'm running
now.
For instance, in climb mode my rpm is 6000 rpm vs 6200 with the
dynamic chamber manifold so rate of climb is less (2350 vs 2650
fpm). It also takes longer to reach take-off speed (slightly longer
takeoff distance) and longer to reach top speed (it looses the drag race
from standing start). Only when the airspeed gets to 200 mph does the ram
tuned manifold start to pay off. You can actually feel the tuning
start to come up 'on the pipe' and accelerate the plane to higher speeds.
Of course the whole picture would change if I had a variable pitch
prop, but I don't (at least right now ; )
Tracy (lusting after the Mistral 20B manifold I saw at
Osh)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis HP (was:
[FlyRotary] Re: Oshkosh)
I agree Bill, that the intake and the ability to spin at higher
rpm with the
lighter rotors are the major source of the higher HP.
However, Tracy Crook
has a log manifold and certainly is producing more
power with it on the
Renesis than he got from the 13B.
So, I am
really keen on seeing how your induction system works out as it
comes
closest to matching what I see on the Rx-8 engine. I would think that
since you appear to be using the six port (vice the four port model Tracy
is
using) that is should breath very well at the higher rpm - but
wonder what
will happen in the below 6000 rpm
range.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube"
<William.P.Dube@noaa.gov>
To:
"Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:
Monday, July 31, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Renesis HP (was:
[FlyRotary] Re: Oshkosh)
>I think most of the HP in the Renesis
is coming from the intake manifold
> design. If you put a "log" intake,
you won't get the big HP that the
> stock tuned intake
delivers.
>
> I've been busy with work and my electric drag bike
lately, so my carbon
> fiber Renesis intake project has been on hold. I
should get back to it
> this winter.
>
> I
have the design, the solid CAD models for the molds, and the
> aluminum
blocks to machine the molds. Need to generate tool paths and
> make
chips.
>
> If anyone here (or near) in Colorado
is interested in helping out
> with this (tool path files for a Haas
toolroom CNC mill,) let me know.
>
> Bill
Dube'
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>> Sort of like one
of his very first predictions that the "Plugs Up"
>>
installations would never work and we would kill ourselves. He
came
>> up with a total of 7 reason why it wouldn't work. Each
time one of
>> the issues was shown not to be an issue, he would come
up with another
>> - final stopped at 7 (or at least that was the
total when I left the
>> list). Needless to say I never
told my engine that it wouldn't work
>> "Plugs up" so it doesn't
know.
>>
>> Tracy is sure going to be disappointed when he
finds out his Renesis
>> engine simply can not push his Rv-4 to over
220 mph according to his
>> grace.
>>
>> The truth
is Paul has had some good ideas and also some bad ones -
>> but, he
will not tolerate any serious challenges to his beliefs,
>> opinions
or dogmatic statements - thus those who rise to a certain
>> level of
understanding and start to question those "truths" pose a
>> threat
and are excommunicated.
>>
>> Too bad, I like Paul, but
after four years just had enough and left
>> his list. I
find this one much more to my liking and besides - it
>> has members
with real flying rotary engines {:>)
>>
>>
Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Phy"
<thomphy@msn.com>
>> To: "Rotary
motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 2:53 PM
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Oshkosh
>>
>>
>>> I am still there. But, as I
have received his emails through the past
>>>
couple
>>> of years, it seems to me that he has contradicted
himself on more
>>> then one
>>> occasion, and then
switched back again. To be fair, he has provided
>>> lots
of
>>> unique ideas that, if they work, I would put into practice.
He just
>>> today
>>> went off on how we should NOT
use the Renesis, because it won't give
>>> us the
>>>
power we expect. This is after I bought one of the "Rupert"
engines,
>>> based
>>> on both his and Tracy's
recommendation's. Just leaves me wondering
>>>
sometimes.
>>> Thomas Phy
>>> RV-7
>>>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bulent Aliev"
>>> <atlasyts@bellsouth.net>
>>>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>>
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:12 AM
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Oshkosh
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was dropped more
than a year ago by PL without explanation. I did
>>>> see him
after that and he did not offer any reason, so I left it
at
>>>> that. Just wander how many are left there on his
list?
>>>> Bulent "Buly" Aliev
>>>> FXE Ft
lauderdale, FL
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/s5xw8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
On Jul 31, 2006, at 1:11 PM, John Downing
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Thomas; My best
guess is that he found out you are on this list.
>>>> >
JohnD
>>>> > Temp is supposed to top 100 today, don't know
how you guys
>>>> > accomplish any
>>>> >
thing in the heat.
>>>> > ----- Original Message
-----
>>>> > From: "Thomas y Reina Jakits" <rijakits@cwpanama.net>
>>>>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>>>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:41 PM
>>>> >
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oshkosh
>>>> >
>>>>
>
>>>> >> If there is a "private" story about PL,
pleeeease include me in the
>>>> >
mailing
>>>> >> list!
>>>> >> Still
scratching my head for the reason of my demise from theeee
>>>>
>> list!
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
Thomas Jakits
>>>> >> rijakits@cwpanama.net
>>>>
>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -----
Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: "Barber Law Firm"
<CBarber@TexasAttorney.net>
>>>>
>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>>>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:01 AM
>>>> >>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oshkosh
>>>>
>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> And if
the scoop is giving to Dave privately, I hope to get the
>>>>
>>> scoop at
>>>> >>> the
>>>>
>>> hangar in a few days. I am curious, I did not know there
was a
>>>> >>> falling
>>>>
>>> out,
>>>> >>> even though, I can't say I
am surprised. I was wondering if the
>>>> >>>
latest
>>>> >>> comments about after market apex seals
were directed at Mr. Crook
>>>> >>>
and
>>>> > Mr.
>>>> >>>
Turintine.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
We, David and I, are still waiting for the Mistral intake
to
>>>> >>> arrive. We
>>>>
>>> were told it shipped last week (the week of the 17th, I
think),
>>>> >>> but it
>>>> >
is
>>>> >>> coming from Geneva. (stay patient
Chris)
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> All the
best,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
Chris
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
Christopher Barber
>>>> >>> Attorney and Counselor at
Law
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> "Serving
the needs of Senior Texans"
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> Barber Law
Firm
>>>> >>> 10827 Tower Bridge
St.
>>>> >>> Houston, Texas
77075-5032
>>>> >>> 281-464-LAWS
(5297)
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
>>>>
>>> www.TexasAttorney.net <http://www.texasattorney.net/>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> Texas <http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
-----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: Rotary
motors in aircraft
>>>> >>>
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
>>>> >>> Behalf
Of David Staten
>>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006
1:43 AM
>>>> >>> To: Rotary motors in
aircraft
>>>> >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Oshkosh
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> Bill Eslick
wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Had to leave Thursday
AM, so missed Tracy completely, but there
>>>> >>>>
was a
>>>> >>>> steady stream of people who were
interested in the rotary engine.
>>>> >>>> Lots of
intelligent questions, and I mentioned Tracy's name
a
>>>> >>>> lot! I
>>>>
>>>> made the mistake of mentioning his name to P.L.
though,
>>>> >>>> and.....well
>>>>
>>>> that is another story to be shared
off-line.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
I'd love to hear the particulars... given that PL has yet
to
>>>> >>> build or
>>>> >>>
fly a rotary powered aircraft, and has ceased to provide any of
the
>>>> >>> manufacturing support that he once did
provide. I dropped off his
>>>> >>>
list
>>>> >>> right before Reno 05 and haven't really
missed it.
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> Smooth flight up and
back from Granbury, with one stop near Kansas
>>>>
>>>> City at Clay County airport. Self-service MOGAS for
$2.90. I
>>>> >>>> like
to
>>>> >>>> rub that in with my Lycosaurus
friends!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
Thanks for the fuel tip..
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >>>> The engine runs so good
now that I suspect the apex seal has been
>>>> >>>>
broken at least a year! This is an amazing engine
design.
>>>> >>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Bill Eslick
>>>> >>>> www.weslick.com/RV6Index.htm
<http://www.weslick.com/RV6Index.htm>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>>
>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>>
>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>>
>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
--
>>>> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>>
>
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>>
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
--
>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>>
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
--
>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
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>>
>
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