X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com ([66.249.82.204] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.2) with ESMTP id 1330411 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:39:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.204; envelope-from=cozy4pilot@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s16so315741wxc for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:38:51 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:importance:x-mimeole:in-reply-to; b=rMbPF2Egsi/IEOZS4fflc+aYIl61fUCyFaK1KxiZVFZtc97zOzCmm5CpqB4kjRXQa0+0nDhNi6Ym2WiqNh2Qw/Sq1xUumnFN4q0QqRcbWhEscEp2Am8IKosuRdQ3uPFEz5m6yA+QHeNP8l9yrZS5+JrDCc13niR1xivkafp3kF8= Received: by 10.70.51.17 with SMTP id y17mr3046304wxy; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from stevehome ( [71.55.75.37]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id h37sm2802441wxd.2006.07.31.10.38.49; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:38:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Brooks" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Auto Fuel - composite tanks Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:39:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C6B4A6.B00EAB40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C6B4A6.B00EAB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Al, When I built my cozy, the EZ-poxy was also recommended for the strakes. Since I used MGS to build the entire plane, I really didn't want to use the EZ-poxy to build the strakes. For one, it would have different curing tendencies, and secondly the specifications of the MGS indicated that strength wise it was a much better epoxy. After some research, which also included using products already tested by others before me, I elected to coat my fuel tanks with a product made by Jeffco. Specially, Jeffco SPF9700-FCR. I built the strakes using MGS, and then coated the interior with the Jeffco epoxy. Here is a link for their product. http://128.121.50.220:8090/Jeffco/Systems/mp_entries/sp9700-FCR/viewCustomer s_html?key=sp9700-FCR I'm not sure how difficult it would be to coat the tanks with it now, but it is impervious to most fuels, and their various additives. I've had fuel in my tanks for almost 3 years now. Various different gas stations, and no problems at all with the tanks. I don't know how hard it would be to coat your tanks now, but it most likely would solve your problem. You just paint the stuff on after mixing it up. It's pretty thick, and tends to stick pretty well to vertical surfaces. As I recall, I gave mine 2 or 3 coatings. I had zero leaks when I pressure tested the tanks. Steve Brooks Cozy MKIV N75CZ Turbo Rotary -----Original Message----- [Steve Brooks] From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Auto Fuel - composite tanks Not sure where to go with this because there are only a few here with epoxy fuel tanks, and on the Velocity list very few interested in the use of mogas. I’m suspecting fuel compatibility isses. I first put fuel in the tanks nearly 2 years ago and used Chevron regular. Everything was fine. When I moved the plane to the airport 3 months ago (tanks empty) I filled with Exxon-Mobile. Four troubling things have come up in the past few weeks. 1.. I have Vance Atkinson site gauge that has a white plastic back plate for easier reading of the fuel level. The small hole through the backing has been swelling shut so the sight gauge no longer works. I contacted Vance who said that there are hundreds of these gauges in EZs using mogas without problems, but he has had 3 incidents like mine in the last three months. 2.. A couple of weeks ago there was suddenly a pinhole leak in one of the gear well enclosures. These enclosures are part of the fuel tank wall, and are parts that come with the Velocity kit. These are also made and coated with EZ-poxy. 3.. Looking in through the filler cap I see reddish-purple splotches and streaks on those gear leg enclosures. Poking and scratching with some safety wire on a stick does not indicate any softness of the surface. 4.. Yesterday, under the leading edges of one of the strakes, I noted an area with some slight surface irregularity. Pushing on it suggests some sponginess. This is ½” foam core material, and indicates the possibility of a pinhole leak in the inner skin, and fuel softening the PVC foam. PVC foam is supposed to be unaffected by fuel. My tanks (strakes) were made and coated with EZ-poxy back in 1998. At the time I polled EZ flyers about there experience, and talked to reps of various epoxy manufacturers about auto fuel compatibility. All the evidence said go with the EZ-poxy. Any others with composite tanks having any trouble? Anybody using Exxon-mobile fuel? Know of any new additives that are an issue? I’m thinking I should drain this fuel ASAP, but then what? Other brand? That expensive Avgas? Regardless I may be faced with cutting open a strake at some point, but right now we are trying to get first flight done this coming weekend. ------=_NextPart_000_00D2_01C6B4A6.B00EAB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al,
When I=20 built my cozy, the EZ-poxy was also recommended for the strakes.  = Since I=20 used MGS to build the entire plane, I really didn't want to use the = EZ-poxy to=20 build the strakes.  For one, it would have different curing = tendencies, and=20 secondly the specifications of the MGS indicated that strength wise it = was a=20 much better epoxy.
 
After=20 some research, which also included using products already tested by = others=20 before me, I elected to coat my fuel tanks with a product made by = Jeffco. =20 Specially, Jeffco SPF9700-FCR.  I built the strakes using MGS, and = then=20 coated the interior with the Jeffco epoxy.
 
Here=20 is a link for their product.  http://128.121.50.220:8090/Jeffco/Sys= tems/mp_entries/sp9700-FCR/viewCustomers_html?key=3Dsp9700-FCR=
 
I'm=20 not sure how difficult it would be to coat the tanks with it now, but it = is=20 impervious to most fuels, and their various additives.  I've had = fuel in my=20 tanks for almost 3 years now.  Various different gas stations, and = no=20 problems at all with the tanks.
 
I=20 don't know how hard it would be to coat your tanks now, but it most = likely would=20 solve your problem.  You just paint the stuff on after mixing it = up. =20 It's pretty thick, and tends to stick pretty well to vertical = surfaces.  As=20 I recall, I gave mine 2 or 3 coatings.  I had zero leaks when I = pressure=20 tested the tanks.
 
Steve=20 Brooks
Cozy=20 MKIV N75CZ
Turbo=20 Rotary
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
[Steve = Brooks] 
 
From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of = Al=20 Gietzen
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 1:15 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Auto Fuel - = composite=20 tanks

Not sure where to go = with this=20 because there are only a few here with epoxy fuel tanks, and on the = Velocity=20 list very few interested in the use of mogas.  I=92m suspecting = fuel=20 compatibility isses.

 

I first put fuel in = the tanks=20 nearly 2 years ago and used Chevron regular. Everything was = fine.  When I=20 moved the plane to the airport 3 months ago (tanks empty) I filled = with=20 Exxon-Mobile.  Four troubling things have come up in the past few = weeks.=20

 

  1. I have Vance = Atkinson site=20 gauge that has a white plastic back plate for easier reading of the = fuel=20 level. The small hole through the backing has been swelling shut so = the=20 sight gauge no longer works. I contacted Vance who said that there = are=20 hundreds of these gauges in EZs using mogas without problems, but he = has had=20 3 incidents like mine in the last three months.
  2. A couple of weeks = ago there=20 was suddenly a pinhole leak in one of the gear well = enclosures.  These=20 enclosures are part of the fuel tank wall, and are parts that come = with the=20 Velocity kit.  These are also made and coated with=20 EZ-poxy.=20
  3. Looking in through = the filler=20 cap I see reddish-purple splotches and streaks on those gear leg=20 enclosures.  Poking and scratching with some safety wire on a = stick=20 does not indicate any softness of the surface.=20
  4. Yesterday, under the = leading=20 edges of one of the strakes, I noted an area with some slight = surface=20 irregularity.  Pushing on it suggests some sponginess.  = This is =BD=94=20 foam core material, and indicates the possibility of a pinhole leak = in the=20 inner skin, and fuel softening the PVC foam.  PVC foam is = supposed to=20 be unaffected by fuel.

 

My tanks (strakes) = were made and=20 coated with EZ-poxy back in 1998.  At the time I polled EZ flyers = about=20 there experience, and talked to reps of various epoxy manufacturers = about auto=20 fuel compatibility.  All the evidence said go with the=20 EZ-poxy.

 

Any others with = composite tanks=20 having any trouble?  Anybody using Exxon-mobile fuel?  Know = of any=20 new additives that are an issue?

 

I=92m thinking I = should drain this=20 fuel ASAP, but then what?  Other brand?  That expensive = Avgas? =20 Regardless I may be faced with cutting open a strake at some point, = but right=20 now we are trying to get first flight done this coming=20 weekend.

 

 

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