X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ironclad.mail.utexas.edu ([128.83.32.59] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.2) with ESMTP id 1231385 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:54:12 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=128.83.32.59; envelope-from=mark.steitle@austin.utexas.edu DomainKey-Signature: s=main; d=austin.utexas.edu; c=nofws; q=dns; b=GHIi1JQV0sqwcucf1W2S5NtuhyJQix5YgKvUgDWI9+mfTgIRWorqtdm7LJLWOGp5XvWuye8ndmMa+xKpziNAMTwq3avOWMGsHY/7FC/SU+iCU2ivQTD7VZSR8oiJ/kgoLClQ/h1BSXFP3TqYweEXGm3jKz7//2ewliAaq14uMj0=; Received: from exb01.austin.utexas.edu (HELO MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu) ([129.116.87.142]) by ironclad.mail.utexas.edu with ESMTP; 10 Jul 2006 15:53:28 -0500 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C6A462.E4C45D93" Subject: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:53:27 -0500 Message-ID: <87DBA06C9A5CB84B80439BA09D86E69E0508F4ED@MAIL01.austin.utexas.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use Thread-Index: AcYn+LKubGikZOJdRcipakCp557TNR8aQbog From: "Mark R Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6A462.E4C45D93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jesse,=20 Here is a post from Feb '06 by Lynn Hanover that I had filed away in my "Cooling" folder. It addresses the issue of NPG, but his explanation of the "best you can do" is right on, IMHO. Note his recommendation to use a teaspoon of dishwashing soap. Could this have the same results as water wetter? Maybe so, and for a few pennies. As I understand it, the 10% antifreeze is mainly for corrosion control. =20 =20 I saved a chart from the other group that shows the heat transfer capacity of various ratios of water and EG. 100% water is much better than a 50/50 mix. I'll see if I can find it and send it to you directly. =20 Mark =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:00 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use =20 Lynn, what is the purpose of the dishwashing soap? Bulent "Buly" Aliev http://tinyurl.com/dcy36 =20 On Feb 2, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/1/2006 10:34:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, wschertz@ispwest.com writes: ** speculation/theory** The only reason for using this stuff is to make the people selling it happy. =20 I have never seen it in a racing situation. Distilled water, maybe 10% antifreeze, a teaspoon full of dishwashing soap. Put the 18-24 pound pressure cap on the make up tank. Get the air out of the system and that is the best you can do. At 6,000 RPM the stock pump will empty the coolant in 10 seconds or less. =20 =20 If it won't cool with the above setup, it isn't the setup. Its airflow/exchanger size/ distribution. =20 All bets are off for turbo installations. =20 On cool days we run a 160 degree thermostat and tape off part of the radiator (Griffin). Normally, (up to the hottest days) no thermostat, full radiator. Top temp is 180. Oil is 190.=20 It takes a big oil radiator to cool a rotary. I have three 13 row Setrabs. =20 If you watch the movies of the instruments after a race, you would think the engine must be junk. Not the case at all. Even an early downshift that takes the engine right past the rev limit (the drivers other hobby) of 9,600 RPM has no affect at all. =20 I have yet to see an aircraft installation that looked like it could put out more than 200 HP. The two GM cores are enough for water. Oil is a poor transfer medium so it takes a bigger cooler to do the same job (remove the same number of BTUs per second).=20 =20 There is just no magic involved. There is no need to reinvent the wheel for each installation. If you have cooling problems at 180 HP, how will you ever enjoy a 200 HP installation?=20 =20 The HP is the easy part. Get the cooling right first. =20 Just my opinion,............I could be wrong. =20 Are there any opinions on a good airfoil for 2,400 pounds going 200 MPH? =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C6A462.E4C45D93 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jesse, =

Here is a post from Feb ‘06 = by Lynn Hanover that I had filed away in my “Cooling” folder.  = It addresses the issue of NPG, but his explanation of the “best you = can do” is right on, IMHO.  Note his recommendation to use a teaspoon of dishwashing soap.  Could this have the same results as water = wetter?  Maybe so, and for a few pennies.  As I understand it, the 10% = antifreeze is mainly for corrosion control. 

 

I saved a chart from the other = group that shows the heat transfer capacity of various ratios of water and = EG.  100% water is much better than a 50/50 mix.  I’ll see if I can = find it and send it to you directly.

 

Mark

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bulent Aliev
Sent: Thursday, February = 02, 2006 7:00 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Suitability of NPG for Rotary Engine use

 

Lynn, what is the purpose of the dishwashing soap?

Bulent "Buly" Aliev



 

On Feb 2, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:



In a message = dated 2/1/2006 10:34:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, wschertz@ispwest.com = writes:

** = speculation/theory**

The only reason for using this = stuff is to make the people selling it happy.

 

=

I have never seen it in a racing situation. Distilled water, maybe 10% antifreeze, a teaspoon full of dishwashing soap. Put the 18-24 pound pressure cap on the make up tank. = Get the air out of the system and that is the best you can do. At 6,000 RPM the = stock pump will empty the coolant in 10 seconds or less. =  

 

=

If it won't cool with the above = setup, it isn't the setup. Its airflow/exchanger size/ = distribution.

 

=

All bets are off for turbo = installations.

 

=

On cool days we run a 160 degree thermostat and tape off part of the radiator (Griffin).

=

Normally, (up to the hottest days) = no thermostat, full radiator. Top temp is 180. Oil is 190. =

It takes a big oil radiator to = cool a rotary. I have three 13 row Setrabs.

 

=

If you watch the movies of the instruments after a race, you would think the engine must be junk. Not = the case at all. Even an early downshift that takes the engine right past the rev = limit

(the drivers other hobby) of 9,600 = RPM has no affect at all.

 

=

I have yet to see an aircraft installation that looked like it could put out more than 200 = HP.

The two GM cores are enough for = water. Oil is a poor transfer medium so it takes a bigger cooler to do the same = job (remove the same number of BTUs per second). =

 

=

There is just no magic involved. = There is no need to reinvent the wheel for each = installation.

If you have cooling problems at = 180 HP, how will you ever enjoy a 200 HP installation? =

 

=

The HP is the easy part. Get the = cooling right first.

 

=

Just my opinion,............I = could be wrong.

 

=

Are there any opinions on a good = airfoil for 2,400 pounds going 200 MPH?

 

=

Lynn E. = Hanover

 

=

 

=

 

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