X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.100] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1095313 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 May 2006 09:08:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-025-165.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.25.165]) by ms-smtp-01.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k47D8At2015183 for ; Sun, 7 May 2006 09:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701c67b45$508967e0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: oil cooler lines Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 09:08:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C67B23.C9269AA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C67B23.C9269AA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A fellow rotary flyer attempted parallel cores (coolant) without = success. He found that the flow through each core depended (in part) on = the engine rpm (pump rpm). He even tried an adjustable "flow diverter" = to ensure that the same amount of coolant flow through each core. He = reported that while he could balance the flow between the two cores at = one rpm, that at a different rpm the share of coolant flow would be = different. He finally gave up and went back to cores in series.=20 That said, on the other hand, Tracy Crook has been flying with parallel = flow cores since day one and certainly has adequate cooling. As best I = recall he had rather small lines - line 5/8" dia flowing from his = thermostat housing to each core. It could be that having the division = of the flow all the way back (almost) to the pump might alleviate some = of the flow division problems. I also suspect that the because he takes = the flow from what I would call a mini-plenum (the volume of the = thermostat housing) that might also assist evening the flow - but just = speculation. Like Lynn said, both parallel and series configuration have been make to = work just fine. Like most things we wrestle with there are pros/cons to = each. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wschertz@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: oil cooler lines I agree that flow can be balanced, however you would have to be able = to measure the flow in order to do that, and most installations do not = have that capability. Just assuming that they are balanced is frought = with the peril that they might not be due to irregularities that are not = obvious.=20 Bill -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "george lendich" =20 Bill, There must be there a way of balancing/ equalising the pressures and = flow through parallel radiators with the use of regulators or some such auto or = pre-set resistors or balance tubes etc. George (down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wschertz@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: oil cooler lines Maybe -- maybe not. The hydraulic resistance for the two flow = paths may be different, then the flows will not be the same.=20 I have mine plumbed parallel, and took pains to make all hose = connections equal length. We will see when I get it started whether it = works as planned. Bill Schertz -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: Bulent Aliev =20 > Bill, I would think they will even out by equalizing the back=20 > pressure from the cooler?=20 > Buly=20 > On May 6, 2006, at 9:24 AM, wschertz@comcast.net wrote:=20 >=20 > > Buly,=20 > > You are correct that parallel coolers will be more = efficient, IF=20 > > the liquid flow through the coolers are the same.=20 > > Bill Schertz=20 > >=20 > > -------------- Original message --------------=20 > > From: Bulent Aliev=20 > >=20 > > > I believe parallel coolers will be more efficient due to = the higher=20 > > > delta T. In a serial set up, the liquid in the second = cooler will be=20 > > > lower temp. and less efficient heat transfer will take = place.=20 > > Jus t an=20 > > > opinion of an eyeball engineer?=20 > > > Buly=20 > > > On May 5, 2006, at 11:34 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20 > > >=20 > > > > Bob,=20 > > > > One other comment........There is some difference of = opinion=20 > > > > among the group=20 > > > > whether connecting coolers (oil or coolent) in series = (as you=20 > > > > propose) or in=20 > > > > parallel is the most efficient method.........We have = group=20 > > members=20 > > > > currently=20 > > > > flying with both methods........Most that I am aware of = that use=20 > > > > both methods=20 > > &g t; > are for coolent systems as not many are using two = oil=20 > > > > coolers........I personally=20 > > > > lean toward a parallel coolent system........Any = comments from=20 > > > > others in the=20 > > > > group about this question would be welcome as I know we = have=20 > > > > several with=20 > > > > experience or training in this area !! What would be = most=20 > > efficient=20 > > > > for one=20 > > > > system should probably apply to the other.......IMHO=20 > > > > --=20 > > > > Kelly Troyer=20 > > > > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -------------- Original message from = kenpowell@comcast.net:=20 > > > > --------------=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Bob,=20 > > > > I think you should have made the lines larger to help = lower=20 > > presure=20 > > > > drop in the long lines. I understand that the extra oil = in the=20 > > > > lines will be heavy but the pressure drop would be a = tradeoff that=20 > > & gt; > I wouldn't want to make.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Ken Powell=20 > > > > Bryant, Arkansas=20 > > > > 501-847-4721=20 > > > > C150 / RV-4 under construction=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -------------- Original message --------------=20 > > > > From: BMears9413@aol.com=20 > > > > I'm running two oil coolers in the Spitfire. Due to the = lengthe of=20 > > > > the lines and volume of the two coolers I reduced my oil = lines to=20 > > > > AN8 (I think stock they were 10?) Now, before I close=20 > > everything up=20 > > > > I'm having second guessing. My total line length will be = around=20 > > > > 12'. I had planned on running the lines to one oil = cooler, then=20 > > the=20 > > > > other, then back to the motor.=20 > > > > Any comments?=20 > > > >=20 > > > > ; Bob Mears=20 > > >=20 > > > Buly=20 > > > http://tinyurl.com/dcy36=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --=20 > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > > Archive and UnSub: http://ma = il.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/=20 >=20 > Buly=20 > http://tinyurl.com/dcy36=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C67B23.C9269AA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A fellow rotary flyer attempted parallel cores = (coolant)=20 without success.  He found that the flow through each core depended = (in=20 part) on the engine rpm (pump rpm).  He even tried an adjustable = "flow=20 diverter" to ensure that the same amount of coolant flow through each=20 core.  He reported that while he  could balance the flow = between the=20 two cores at one rpm, that at a different rpm the share of coolant flow = would be=20 different.  He finally gave up and went back to cores in=20 series. 
 
 That said, on the other hand, Tracy Crook = has been=20 flying with parallel flow cores since day one and certainly has adequate = cooling.  As best I recall he had rather small lines  - line = 5/8" dia=20 flowing from his thermostat housing to each core.  It could be that = having=20 the division of the flow all the way back (almost) to the pump might = alleviate=20 some of the flow division problems.  I also suspect that the = because he=20 takes the flow from what I would call a mini-plenum (the volume of the=20 thermostat housing) that might also assist evening the flow - but just=20 speculation.
 
Like Lynn said, both parallel and series = configuration=20 have been make to work just fine.  Like most things we wrestle with = there=20 are pros/cons to each.
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wschertz@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 8:22 = AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: oil = cooler=20 lines

I agree that flow can be balanced, however you would have to be = able to=20 measure the flow in order to do that, and most installations do not = have that=20 capability. Just assuming that they are balanced is frought with the = peril=20 that they might not be due to irregularities that are not obvious. =
Bill
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: "george lendich"=20 <lendich@optusnet.com.au>
Bill,
There must be there a way of = balancing/=20 equalising the pressures and flow through
parallel radiators with the use of = regulators=20 or some such auto or pre-set resistors or balance tubes = etc.
George (down under)
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 wschertz@comcast.net =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 = 9:49=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = oil cooler=20 lines

Maybe -- maybe not. The hydraulic resistance for the two flow = paths=20 may be different, then the flows will not be the same.
 
I have mine plumbed parallel, and took pains to make all hose = connections equal length. We will see when I get it started = whether it=20 works as planned.
 
Bill Schertz
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: Bulent Aliev=20 <atlasyts@bellsouth.net>

> Bill, I would think = they=20 will even out by equalizing the back
> pressure from the = cooler?=20
> Buly
> On May 6, 2006, at 9:24 AM, = wschertz@comcast.net=20 wrote:
>
> > Buly,
> > You are = correct that=20 parallel coolers will be more efficient, IF
> > the = liquid=20 flow through the coolers are the same.
> > Bill = Schertz=20
> >
> > -------------- Original message=20 --------------
> > From: Bulent Aliev=20
> >
> > > I = believe=20 parallel coolers will be more efficient due to the higher =
> >=20 > delta T. In a serial set up, the liquid in the second = cooler will=20 be
> > > lower temp. and less efficient heat = transfer will=20 take place.
> > Jus t an
> > > opinion of = an=20 eyeball engineer?
> > > Buly
> > > On = May 5,=20 2006, at 11:34 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> > > =
> >=20 > > Bob,
> > > > One other = comment........There is=20 some difference of opinion
> > > > among the = group=20
> > > > whether connecting coolers (oil or = coolent) in=20 series (as you
> > > > propose) or in
> = > >=20 > parallel is the most efficient method.........We have group =
> > members
> > > > currently
> = >=20 > > flying with both methods........Most that I am aware = of that=20 use
> > > > both methods
> > &g t; = >=20 are for coolent systems as not many are using two oil
> = > >=20 > coolers........I personally
> > > > lean = toward a=20 parallel coolent system........Any comments from
> > = > >=20 others in the
> > > > group about this question = would be=20 welcome as I know we have
> > > > several with =
>=20 > > > experience or training in this area !! What would = be most=20
> > efficient
> > > > for one
> = >=20 > > system should probably apply to the other.......IMHO =
>=20 > > > --
> > > > Kelly Troyer
> = >=20 > > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2
> > > > =
> >=20 > >
> > > >
> > > > =
> >=20 > > -------------- Original message from = kenpowell@comcast.net:=20
> > > > --------------
> > > > =
>=20 > > > Bob,
> > > > I think you should = have made=20 the lines larger to help lower
> > presure
> = > >=20 > drop in the long lines. I understand that the extra oil in = the=20
> > > > lines will be heavy but the pressure = drop would=20 be a tradeoff that
> > & gt; > I wouldn't want = to make.=20
> > > >
> > > > Ken Powell =
> >=20 > > Bryant, Arkansas
> > > > 501-847-4721 =
>=20 > > > C150 / RV-4 under construction
> > > = >=20
> > > > -------------- Original message = --------------=20
> > > > From: BMears9413@aol.com
> > = > >=20 I'm running two oil coolers in the Spitfire. Due to the lengthe = of=20
> > > > the lines and volume of the two coolers = I=20 reduced my oil lines to
> > > > AN8 (I think = stock they=20 were 10?) Now, before I close
> > everything up =
> >=20 > > I'm having second guessing. My total line length will = be=20 around
> > > > 12'. I had planned on running the = lines=20 to one oil cooler, then
> > the
> > > = > other,=20 then back to the motor.
> > > > Any comments? =
>=20 > > >
> > > > ; Bob Mears
> > = >=20
> > > Buly
> > > = http://tinyurl.com/dcy36=20
> > >
> > >
> > > =
> >=20 >
> > > --
> > > Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > Archive and UnSub:=20 http://ma il.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
> =
> Buly=20
> http://tinyurl.com/dcy36
>
>
> =
>=20
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =
>=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/=20
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