Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #3126
From: sqpilot@earthlink <sqpilot@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake questions
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:49:00 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Gietzen
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake questions

 

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake questions

 

Hi, Rusty.....I purchased the short intake manifold from Dave Atkins. He claims he has more than adequate power with his, and that idle is also good.  Look at all the race cars and racing motorcycles that have the carbs or throttle bodies right next to the engine.  They seem to generate a lot of power that way. For what it's worth. Paul Conner 

 

I originally had planned on longer ‘tuned’ runners, Dave Atkins made all the arguments to me about his short manifold being just as good, etc.,etc.  I wanted to believe because I liked the idea of a short compact manifold for my installation; so I designed and had made a very nice short, compact manifold.

 

I have since done the dyno runs on my engine, and compared data from different sources. I haven’t delved into the theory as much as Ed; I’ve come to a conclusion. High rpm operation; say 7000+ likes a short compact manifold because at those rpms the tuned length is very short, but also because the ease of breathing is what matters. Dave Atkins doesn’t know the theory well at all, he knows about performance of drag racing engines and others; and I’d say mostly at higher rpm.  And, of course Lyn is right as well, racing at 9000 rpm, short manifold is best.  

 

In the case of my engine the hp curve just kept going up to my end point of 7000 rpm where it reached 95 hp per rotor.  But I was disappointed (just a little bit) by the hp at 5500 of 78.5/rotor).  It’s really hard to find good real dyno data for comparison, but my educated guess is that I might get 3 - 5  more hp per rotor somewhere in the 5000 – 5500 rpm range with longer tuned runners.  I’d probably get about the same, or a little less at 7000.

 

Dave also argued that the 9:1 compression rotors that he put in (for normally aspirated) were just as good as 9.5:1.  I never did really believe that; but again, the data shows that at higher rpm he’s probably right.  Curves that Mazda generated show that above about 6800 or so, that compression ratio doesn’t matter; but at 5500 rpm it could mean another 3 – 4 hp per rotor.  So, in my case, tuned induction (done correctly) and the 9.5:1 rotors might give me 85 – 87 hp per rotor at 5500.

 

So for a N/A engine and a 2.17:1 redrive ratio these factors matter.  For turbocharged and higher rpm it doesn’t; just make it breath easy. Any gain from tuned induction effect can easily be achieved with just a bit more boost.

 

At least that’s my take.

 

Al

Hi, Al....and thanks for the education and work on the dyno.  I guess I'm kinda thinking that I would be pretty happy with 78.5 hp per rotor at 5500 rpm.  That's nearly 160 hp on auto fuel with a bullet-proof engine that I can rebuild for less than the cost of one cylinder kit for a Lycoming....hmmmm....not too shabby.

      It a tuned intake might give another 3 to 5 hp increase per rotor, I'm not entirely sure I'd go through the extra effort and expense, versus a simple, straight bolt-on manifold that fits just right inside my cowling, with no modifications, plus it is very light weight.  My aircraft, being a canard, is pretty clean aerodynamically, and I think that 5500 rpm might give me reasonable fuel burns properly leaned out, and the engine won't be working all that hard at those rpm's?  I'm far more interested in fuel economy at cruise than high performance climb-outs.  I figure I spend 95 percent of my flight at cruise, and only 5 percent on take-off and climb, so my priorities are for  low rpm, economical cruise performance.  After I receive this new manifold, I may have a couple aluminum tubes bent and have longer intake runners, won't know until I receive the new intake manifold.  Will keep you posted.  Thanks again for all your input and information.  sincerly,  Paul Conner

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