Return-Path: Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2581901 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:15:19 -0400 Received: from user-33qt4ee.dialup.mindspring.com ([199.174.145.206] helo=Carol) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19zNAK-00077F-00 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:15:16 -0700 Message-ID: <003101c37c97$964becd0$0000a398@Carol> From: "sqpilot@earthlink" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: turbo performance? Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:14:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C37C6D.ACB999B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C37C6D.ACB999B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageHey, Todd.....sorry to hear about the EWP shipping problems. I am = also very interested in your test results, as I am considering trying = one also. (The other brand, however). Best of luck and hope you get to = try the pump before bringing the plane back home. Take care. Paul = Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Haywire=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: turbo performance? Hi Rusty; You're probably not as curious now about this since you've been = out wrangling up some extra ponies, but here it is anyways... Just how much below your expectations was you climb performance?=20 Lots. I had dreams of 2000fpm, but was expecting 1200fpm without using = boost, but managed a dismal 500fpm. However aircraft weight was approx = 1700 lbs, as there was two of us on board and I was carrying more fuel = than necessary. How much boost were you running? Full throttle, or part throttle to = lower boost? We were running 0psi boost, which is less than 3/4 throttle. At one = point it creeped up to 2 psi but I throttled back. I had been running = under the idea that 0 boost would equal an NA, even though in the back = of my mind I remembered someone speculating that it would require at = least 2 psi to overcome the backpressure caused by the turbo. Leon has = confirmed this for me. You're initial speculation of being over propped might put you in = the same boat I'm in, that is, having less power than you should. I spoke with Dave Atkins as I knew he was also using an IVO Magnum. = His is also a 76" 3-blade, so maybe I'm as overpropped as I had thought. = He has reprofiled his blades, but he says that only helped at the top = end. Apparently some NASA engineer helped him with it and it allowed him = to get the top end numbers that are otherwise elusive for IVO props. I = can't tell you what pitch I'm running as mine is cockpit adjustable, so = I've cycled through a few times. A big priority will be to calibrate the = electronic constant speed governor so then I should be able to dial it = in for the climb RPM. This has to be done under flight conditions. I know you've run as much as 6 psi on the ground, so I'm guessing = that you were probably running more than I was for these flights, so you = may not be as far behind the curve as I am. =20 The plan for flight #5 was to "press the go button":-), and use all = available boost on take-off, just to see what she really had in her, = unfortunately the EWP seizing moments before we taxied onto the active = runway put a halt on that idea.=20 The weather here has really cooled off in the last week, this evening = as I was riding my motorbike home, it was downright freezing, so by the = time I get going again I'll do some air density calcs before I pour all = the coals on the fire. I'm also considering removing my wings and bringing my plane home, but = for different reasons. In less than a week I have to go to the bush to = work as a hunting guide for a few weeks, then when I return I have less = than three weeks before I return to tech school. Since we have an = incoming exam that is worth 25% of final mark, I'd best get my nose in = the books. I don't return from school till Christmas, so realistically = I'm looking at January before I can resume flight testing. As a rookie = pilot, flight testing in the winter might not be the best idea, so it = may even be spring before I can get really serious about again. Right = now I pay a pretty reasonable rate for hangar space, but it goes up = substantially in the winter, so bringing it home may be the best option. = I can't say that I'm very happy about this, in fact I'm downright pissed = off :-(, but as everyday goes by with an empty mailbox and no EWP, I'm = running out of options. This is not to say that I regret trying the EWP. It was really = promising right up until it quit working :-). As even the best products = can fail, I'm willing to give it the benefit and try a replacement. Leon = has helped by sending a replacement right away, but somewhere it got = lost, so he has sent yet another, but I'm beginning to lose faith in our = mail system. I'm really hoping I can get another chance to try this pump = before I'm forced to bring it home, as if it is not successful it would = be allot easier to convert to a mechanical pump here in my own shop. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RV-9Endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe = in, Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C37C6D.ACB999B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hey, Todd.....sorry to hear about the = EWP shipping=20 problems. I am also very interested in your test results, as I am = considering=20 trying one also. (The other brand, however). Best of luck and hope you = get to=20 try the pump before bringing the plane back home.  Take care.  = Paul=20 Conner
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Haywire
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, = 2003 1:48=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: turbo=20 performance?

Hi=20 Rusty;
    You're probably not as curious now about this since you've = been out=20 wrangling up some extra ponies, but here it is = anyways...
 
Just=20 how much below your expectations was you climb=20 performance? 
Lots. I had dreams=20 of 2000fpm, but was expecting 1200fpm without using boost, but managed = a=20 dismal 500fpm. However aircraft weight was approx 1700 lbs, as there = was two=20 of us on board and I was carrying more fuel than=20 necessary.
How much boost were you = running? =20 Full throttle, or part throttle to lower = boost?
We were=20 running 0psi boost, which is less than 3/4 throttle. At one = point it=20 creeped up to 2 psi but I throttled back. I had been running under the = idea=20 that 0 boost would equal an NA, even though in the back of my mind I=20 remembered someone speculating that it would require at least 2 psi to = overcome the backpressure caused by the turbo. Leon has confirmed this = for=20 me.
You're initial speculation = of being over=20 propped might put you in the same boat I'm in, that is, having = less=20 power than you should.
I spoke=20 with Dave Atkins as I knew he was also using an IVO Magnum. His is = also a 76"=20 3-blade, so maybe I'm as overpropped as I had thought. He has = reprofiled his=20 blades, but he says that only helped at the top end. Apparently some = NASA=20 engineer helped him with it and it allowed him to get the top end = numbers that=20 are otherwise elusive for IVO props. I can't tell you what pitch I'm = running=20 as mine is cockpit adjustable, so I've cycled through a few times. A = big=20 priority will be to calibrate the electronic constant speed governor = so then I=20 should be able to dial it in for the climb RPM. This has to be done = under=20 flight conditions.
 
 I know you've run as = much as 6 psi=20 on the ground, so I'm guessing that you were probably running more = than I=20 was for these flights, so you may not be as far behind the = curve as I=20 am.  
The plan=20 for flight #5 was to "press the go button":-), and use all available = boost on=20 take-off, just to see what she really had in her, unfortunately the = EWP=20 seizing moments before we taxied onto the active runway put a halt on = that=20 idea.
The=20 weather here has really cooled off in the last week, this evening as I = was=20 riding my motorbike home, it was downright freezing, so by the time I = get=20 going again I'll do some air density calcs before I pour all the coals = on the=20 fire.
 
I'm also=20 considering removing my wings and bringing my plane home, but for = different=20 reasons. In less than a week I have to go to the bush to work as a = hunting=20 guide for a few weeks, then when I return I have less than three weeks = before=20 I return to tech school. Since we have an incoming exam that is worth = 25% of=20 final mark, I'd best get my nose in the books. I don't return from = school till=20 Christmas, so realistically I'm looking at January before I can resume = flight=20 testing. As a rookie pilot, flight testing in the winter might not be = the best=20 idea, so it may even be spring before I can get really serious about = again.=20 Right now I pay a pretty reasonable rate for hangar space, but it goes = up=20 substantially in the winter, so bringing it home may be the best = option. I=20 can't say that I'm very happy about this, in fact I'm downright pissed = off=20 :-(, but as everyday goes by with an empty mailbox and no EWP, I'm = running out=20 of options.
 
This is=20 not to say that I regret trying the EWP. It was really promising right = up=20 until it quit working :-). As even the best products can fail, I'm = willing to=20 give it the benefit and try a replacement. Leon has helped by sending = a=20 replacement right away, but somewhere it got lost, so he has sent yet = another,=20 but I'm beginning to lose faith in our mail system. I'm really hoping = I can=20 get another chance to try this pump before I'm forced to bring it = home, as if=20 it is not successful it would be allot easier to convert to a = mechanical pump=20 here in my own shop.

S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B = RV-9Endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

=   =20 "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe in,=20 Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".

 
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