X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: <13brv3@bellsouth.net> Received: from imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.5) with ESMTP id 908210 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:46:28 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.67; envelope-from=13brv3@bellsouth.net Received: from ibm59aec.bellsouth.net ([65.6.194.9]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060101234544.POPM14499.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm59aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:45:44 -0500 Received: from rd ([65.6.194.9]) by ibm59aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060101234543.RDAJ269.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@rd>; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:45:43 -0500 From: "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> To: "Flyrotary List" Subject: Single rotor running- Tracy questions Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:45:44 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c60f2d$7b7fdd00$6101a8c0@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EFB.30E56D00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EFB.30E56D00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, =20 Below are two days of log entries. The first will be a repeat, if the message I sent to the list 24 hours ago every decides to show up. = Hopefully this message won't also go into the void that intermittently appears to exist between Bellsouth, and Lancaironline. =20 Tracy, on my older versions of the EC-2, there were two default = settings. One was setting everything to zero, and the other was setting it to what = you have on the RV-4. I looked through the new manual at the hanger = yesterday, and again today, but just couldn't find the procedure to set the EC-2 to your settings. There was only the mention of setting to the zero = defaults. =20 Now it's possible that I missed it, but I did find my old cheat sheet = for the procedure, which was basically the same, except turning the cold = start switch on when doing the reset. In retrospect, I did this on mode one = of the the A controller just before noticing that the A controller seemed = dead. Is this procedure for setting the defaults to your values no longer = valid, and did that cause the A controller to wig out for a while (mentioned in = the log)? =20 =20 Also, I think I've mentioned this before, but I'd REALLY prefer to have = the manual for the EC-2, and EM-2 in electronic format. I could search for = this default setting question, rather than having to read through the whole manual (quickly, and probably missing what I'm looking for). I could = also easily print a copy for the hanger, and home, rather than having to = shuffle a bunch of paper through the copier. I would venture to guess that = almost everyone on this list would feel the same way. Is there any possibility = of posting these manuals on the web page? You could change the revision = number when new features are added, and put the date they were added. That = would let people figure out=20 =20 I'm hitting send now. Let's see if it shows up. =20 Cheers, Rusty (1-1-06 5:45 pm) =20 =20 =20 12-31-05=20 =20 Made the first attempt to crank the engine today. This turned out to be = a good news/ bad news event. The good news is that it fired up instantly, = and everything seems to work. The bad news is that it's rough as a cob :-0=20 =20 It would appear that my worst fears about the torque reversals with the RD-1C drive have come true. I didn't notice the rpm, but the engine = barely made it over the speed the starter turns it. In fact, the starter = stayed engaged a couple times, because the engine didn't accelerate enough to = push the gear back. Did I mention that's it's rough :-) It just shook the living crap out of the plane, but the engine mounts work well. The main = gear of the plane was actually jumping slightly off the ground. Good thing I = was sitting in the plane, or it really might have been interesting. =20 =20 While the engine was running, no amount of throttle changes anything. = It's simply impossible for the engine to accelerate out of this mode. BTW, = this is EXACTLY how the 912S used to behave on this plane. If you didn't = crank the engine with enough throttle opening, it would get stuck in the = gearbox shaking mode, and the best thing you could do was shut it down, and try again. Rotax came out with a "slipper clutch" to eliminate the problem = on the 912S. =20 =20 Next step will be to remove the prop, and try it that way. Eliminating = the rotational mass of the prop should make it better, if not eliminate the problem altogether. If that works OK, then I may have to try a = different hardness of rubber dampeners on the redrive thrust plate. If it doesn't work, then I'll likely pull the drive itself off, and try it that way. = =20 1-1-05 =20 Much better today. It appears that some dumbass marked my pulley wrong = :-) Tracy says to put a new mark on the pulley that's 35 degrees BTDC, and = set the static timing to that. The RB pulley has 4 equally spaced marks on = it- 10 ATDC, TDC, 10 BTDC, and 20 BTDC. Realizing that these are 10 = degrees apart, I measured the distance, and then figured out what one and a half times that distance would be. This new distance would be 15 degrees, = and if I put it beyond the 20 BTDC, I'd be at 35 BTDC. Unfortunately, when you have the pulley turned around backwards on the workbench, and put the = new mark on the OTHER side of the existing marks, it becomes 25 ATDC. When = I set the static timing, I set it to my new mark, which I "knew" was = right, so the timing was retarded by 60 degrees. Amazing it ran at all. =20 =20 The good news is that it runs much better now, even with the prop = (didn't try without it). There is still going to be a resonance issue with the redrive I believe, as there are a couple RPM's that go into the same = rattle mode that I used to get around 1100 RPM on the 13B. The worst was = around 2400 RPM, and it also seemed rough around 3000, but not as much = rattling. I didn't run over about 4000 rpm, or more than a few minutes, since I suspected I still had a bit of an oil leak, and didn't want to make too = much of a mess. =20 =20 There was oil leaking at the fitting on top of the front housing, which = I use to feed the redrive. This is really a metric fitting, but 1/8 NPT = seems to fit well. I ended up removing the fitting, and installing a new one, with some miracle gray RTV for good measure. Unfortunately, it leaked plenty during my few minutes of running. I had the plane tied to the = wheel of the company van, and it is completely covered in oil. I do mean the whole van, not just the wheel :-) I bet it's really only a half pint = or so, but it sure got spread around by the prop. =20 =20 I also had an odd case where the A controller seemed dead. The = injectors wouldn't click when I pushed the set button, and the engine wouldn't = fire. The B controller worked normally, but switching to A while running = killed the engine dead. After I turned everything off, checked for leaks and such, then turned it all back on again, the A controller seemed to be working fine. It's now as if there's no problem at all. There's a long time before I could ever consider flying the plane, so I'll just watch = to see if this returns. =20 I need to finish eliminating the leaks, then run it enough to purge any = air from the cooling system, and verify that all is well as far as cooling = goes. At that point, I can give auto tune a try, and then see if I can make = some sense out of the torque reversal induced vibrations. =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C60EFB.30E56D00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Greetings,
 
Below are two = days of log=20 entries.  The first will be a repeat, if the message I sent to the = list 24=20 hours ago every decides to show up.  Hopefully this message won't = also go=20 into the void that intermittently appears to exist between Bellsouth, = and=20 Lancaironline.
 
Tracy,  on my=20 older versions of the EC-2, there were two default settings.  One = was=20 setting everything to zero, and the other was setting it to what you = have on the=20 RV-4.  I looked through the new manual at the hanger yesterday, and = again=20 today, but just couldn't find the procedure to set the EC-2 to your=20 settings.  There was only the mention of setting to the zero=20 defaults. 
 
Now it's = possible that=20 I missed it, but I did find my old cheat sheet for the procedure, which = was=20 basically the same, except turning the cold start switch on when doing = the=20 reset.  In retrospect, I did this on mode one of the the A = controller just=20 before noticing that the A controller seemed dead.  Is this = procedure for=20 setting the defaults to your values no longer valid, and did that cause = the A=20 controller to wig out for a while (mentioned in the log)? =20
 
Also, I = think I've=20 mentioned this before, but I'd REALLY prefer to have the manual for the = EC-2,=20 and EM-2 in electronic format.  I could search for this default = setting=20 question, rather than having to read through the whole manual (quickly, = and=20 probably missing what I'm looking for).  I could also easily print = a copy=20 for the hanger, and home, rather than having to shuffle a bunch of paper = through=20 the copier.  I would venture to guess that almost everyone on this = list=20 would feel the same way.  Is there any possibility of posting these = manuals=20 on the web page?  You could change the revision number when new = features=20 are added, and put the date they were added. That would let people = figure out=20
 
I'm hitting = send=20 now.  Let's see if it shows up.
 
Cheers,
Rusty  = (1-1-06=20 5:45 pm)
 
 
 
12-31-05 
 
Made the first=20 attempt to crank the engine today. =20 This turned out to be a good news/ bad news event.  The good news is that it fired = up=20 instantly, and everything seems to work. =20 The bad news is that it’s rough as a cob :-0
 
It would=20 appear that my worst fears about the torque reversals with the RD-1C = drive have=20 come true.  I didn’t = notice the rpm,=20 but the engine barely made it over the speed the starter turns it.  In fact, the starter stayed = engaged a=20 couple times, because the engine didn’t accelerate enough to push = the gear=20 back.  Did I mention = that’s it’s=20 rough :-)  It just shook = the living=20 crap out of the plane, but the engine mounts work well. The main gear of = the=20 plane was actually jumping slightly off the ground.  Good thing I was sitting in = the plane,=20 or it really might have been interesting.  
 
While the=20 engine was running, no amount of throttle changes anything.  It’s simply impossible = for the engine to=20 accelerate out of this mode.  =20 BTW, this is EXACTLY how the 912S used to behave on this = plane.  If you didn’t crank the = engine with=20 enough throttle opening, it would get stuck in the gearbox shaking mode, = and the=20 best thing you could do was shut it down, and try again.  Rotax came out with a  “slipper clutch” to = eliminate the problem=20 on the 912S.    
 
Next step will=20 be to remove the prop, and try it that way.  Eliminating the rotational mass = of the=20 prop should make it better, if not eliminate the problem = altogether.   If that works OK, then I may = have to try=20 a different hardness of rubber dampeners on the redrive thrust = plate.  If it doesn’t work, then = I’ll likely=20 pull the drive itself off, and try it that way.   
 
1-1-05
 
Much better=20 today.  It appears that = some dumbass=20 marked my pulley wrong :-)  =20 Tracy says to put a new mark = on the=20 pulley that's 35 degrees BTDC, and set the static timing to = that.  The=20 RB pulley has 4 equally spaced marks on it- 10 ATDC, TDC, 10 BTDC, = and 20=20 BTDC.   Realizing that these are 10 degrees apart, I measured = the=20 distance, and then figured out what one and a half times that distance = would=20 be.  This new distance would be 15 degrees, and if I put it beyond = the 20=20 BTDC, I'd be at 35 BTDC.  Unfortunately, when you have the pulley = turned=20 around backwards on the workbench, and put the new mark on = the OTHER side=20 of the existing marks, it becomes 25 ATDC.  When I set the = static=20 timing, I set it to my new mark, which I "knew" was right, so the = timing=20 was retarded by 60 degrees.  Amazing it ran at=20 all.     
 
The good news=20 is that it runs much better now, even with the prop (didn't try without=20 it).  There is still going to be a resonance issue with the redrive = I=20 believe, as there are a couple RPM's that go into the same rattle mode = that I=20 used to get around 1100 RPM on the 13B.  The worst was around 2400 = RPM, and=20 it also seemed rough around 3000, but not as much rattling.  I = didn't run=20 over about 4000 rpm, or more than a few minutes,  since I suspected = I still had=20 a bit of an oil leak, and didn't want to make too much of a mess. =20
 
There was oil=20 leaking at the fitting on top of the front housing, which I use to feed = the=20 redrive.  This is really a = metric=20 fitting, but 1/8 NPT seems to fit well. =20 I ended up removing the fitting, and installing a new one, with = some=20 miracle gray RTV for good measure. =20 Unfortunately, it leaked plenty during my few minutes of = running.  I=20 had the plane tied to the wheel of the company van, and it is completely = covered=20 in oil.  I do mean the = whole van,=20 not just the wheel :-)   I bet it's really only a half = pint or so,=20 but it sure got spread around by the prop. 
 
I also had an=20 odd case where the A controller seemed dead.  The injectors wouldn’t = click when I=20 pushed the set button, and the engine wouldn’t fire.  The B controller worked = normally, but=20 switching to A while running killed the engine dead.  After I turned everything = off,  checked for leaks and such, = then turned=20 it all back on again, the A controller seemed to be working fine.  It’s now as if = there’s no problem at=20 all.  There's a long time before I could ever = consider flying=20 the plane, so I'll just watch to see if this = returns.
 
I need to=20 finish eliminating the leaks, then run it enough to purge any air from = the=20 cooling system, and verify that all is well as far as cooling goes.  At that point, I can give auto = tune a=20 try, and then see if I can make some sense out of the torque reversal = induced=20 vibrations. 
 
 
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