X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.5) with ESMTP id 907716 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:00:08 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.65; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from ibm57aec.bellsouth.net ([209.215.61.35]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060101025922.ROT18401.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm57aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:59:22 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [209.215.61.35]) by ibm57aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060101025920.LSLL8357.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@[127.0.0.1]> for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:59:20 -0500 Message-ID: <43B74587.9040104@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 20:59:19 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: External datalogging, and other stuff References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My impression when I hear 'glass cockpit' is all flight & nav instruments so our disagreement may be in my misinterpretation of your meaning . I just took another look at your web site to see what you meant by 'glass cockpit'. I can understand using windows for data logging & engine monitoring. But, even if Windows wouldn't kill me by locking up during a VFR flight, I wouldn't want to tie all my flight instruments & nav duties to it just because of the hassle factor when I get the blue screen. Maybe we aren't that far apart in our attitudes about risk vs benefit. I *do* have an iPaq running moving map in the cockpit, but it is non-essential & only a minor irritation when it locks up, since I have a dedicated GPS/moving map independent of the iPaq. Charlie al p Wick wrote: >Needless to say, you are welcome to use whatever criteria you want to >make a decision. I try real hard to convert these decisions to logical >statements. So I would interpret your statement as "Charlie thinks the >risk of computer shut down is greater than the risk of crashing from one >of the things it monitors." > >The computer is running only a couple of applications. It's not on the >internet. So if I fired up any win platform running one application, how >often would it crash? If it operated for two weeks without crashing, that >is equivalent to my flying for two years. Seeing as the average pilot >flies less than 150 hours a year. Realistically, if Iwas running win 3.1 >(remember that old sys?) EVEN it would go for over 10 years without a >blue screen. >So it's very low risk....but there is more. > >The blue screen risk is independent probability. So it's only when it >crashes at the same time as one of the items we monitor goes belly up, >that we are in trouble. Remember, the laptop doesn't fly the plane. It >just monitors things, tells you if something is awry. So the odds of >those two happening at the same time? Holy cow, it must be astronomical. >1 in x billion or so. Using this logic, it's abundantly clear that the >windows system is entirely suitable. However, that would change if I were >using to laptop to perform some flight critical function. Suddenly they >are not independent probabilities, but dependant ones. But we aren't >using it in that manner. > >I managed quality assurance for a living. So I put solutions in place, >then measured how well the solution worked. I then tried another >solution, remeasured. I did this with huge variety of problems. Us pilots >have the same failure patterns that businesses do. Things like "I usually >do x, but I was distracted by......." or "I didn't notice......" >The intelligent monitoring via glass cockpit is extremely effective >solution that will save lives. I'd estimate it makes flying around 10 >times safer than the aircraft next to you. > > >-al wick >Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 >N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon >Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: >http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html > > > > >On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:00:46 -0600 Charlie England > writes: > > >>I run xp home & xp pro at home, xp pro at work supported by a Huge IT >> >>group (US Gov. agency). XP is much more reliable than the older >>versions; it only locks up once every week or two instead of every >>day >>like the older versions. >> >>No thanks on MS in the cockpit, except for stuff like an iPaq that's >> >>non-essential. >> >>Charlie >> >>al p Wick wrote: >> >> >> >>>I suspect there are not Unix versions, but don't know for sure. You >>> >>> >>may >> >> >>>be able to find out from wonderware web site. There are no >>> >>> >>penalties for >> >> >>>using windows. Particularly newer versions. >>> >>> >>>-al wick >>>Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru >>> >>> >>2.5 >> >> >>>N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon >>>Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design >>> >>> >>info: >> >> >>>http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html >>> >>> >>>On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:52:06 -0500 Ernest Christley >>> writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>al p Wick wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I take advantage of off the shelf software and hardware. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Al, I've looked at you're glass panel page. I'm not sure, but it >>>> >>>> >>>>appears that you base the system on a software package from >>>>Wonderware? >>>>Are there Unix versions of this software available, or is it >>>>strickly a >>>>Microsoft shop? I couldn't find that information anywhere on >>>> >>>> >>their >> >> >>>>website. >>>> >>>>-- >>>> ,|"|"|, | >>>>----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta | >>>> o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org | >>>> >>>>-- >>>>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>Archive and UnSub: >>>> >>>> >>http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-al wick >>>Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru >>> >>> >>2.5 >> >> >>>N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon >>>Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design >>> >>> >>info: >> >> >>>http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html >>> >>>-- >>>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>Archive and UnSub: >>> >>> >>http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>-- >>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ >> >> >> >> > > >-al wick >Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 >N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon >Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: >http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html > >-- >Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > >