X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail24.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.133.165] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.5) with ESMTPS id 906761 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:03:18 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.133.165; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-160-5.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.160.5]) by mail24.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id jBV02MnQ002636 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:02:25 +1100 Message-ID: <001901c60d9d$7b6c75d0$05a0ecdc@george> From: "george lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:02:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60DF1.4C259A50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60DF1.4C259A50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al,=20 What CAM are we talking about here. However could a back-up be somehow placed on a flywheel - just thinking = out loud. George (down under) FWIW, I track Subaru fail rates. The crank sensor fails 1 per 200k hours = estimated. Which sounds ok, but isn't the best rate. It is trivial fail = rate though, as the ECM has design features which determine sensor has = failed, flags owner, then uses cam sensor. This is a big part of the = reason there are never (virtually) vehicle shut downs. Pretty ingenious = failure mode actually....the engine is difficult to start if one of = those sensors fails, yet runs great. They use irregular pulse intervals = for each of the sensors, making it easy to self diagnose. We've been discussing these design advantages for years on the = newsgroup. It's good to hear it results in design requests. I've heard = of at least three aircraft crank sensor failures. Two were custom wiring = failure, crash resulted. One was actual sensor. All of these had = aftermarket ECM's ...so engine stopped. I look forward to when the = aftermarket ecm's take advantage of these safety techniques. -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru = 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design = info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:15:57 -0500 "Tracy Crook" = writes: Not a stupid question at all. Nothing special about the sensor but = note that it is a variable reluctance sensor, not Hall effect. Most any = VR type will work but some are more reliable than others. The Subaru = does not have a good track record based on the number of Soob flyers who = have had failures and asked me to make dual pickup versions for the = EJ-2x & EG-33 engines. I have not heard of a Mazda sensor failing but = that is of course no guarantee that it can't happen. =20 Do be sure to check the polarity of any VR sensor used. The output = should swing positive as the tooth moves toward it and negative as it = moves away. Spent yesterday configuring my oil system on the RV-8. I should = have heeded Rusty's warning on those "Easy push-on oil line fittings" = The Summit description says "no more busted knuckles trying to assemble = oil lines". Ha! I'm an FAA "standard 170 lb pilot" but that is not = enough force to put on those blasted fittings. Anyone know a trick to = make them easier to put on? =20 Tracy (finally getting my XM weather activated) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ernest Christley=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Eccentric Shaft Position Sensor Kelly Troyer wrote: > > > > Ken, > > > Hit the junkyards........1999-2002 Mazda Protege = "Camshaft > Sensor" > > > is the same part number as the 1993-95 RX7 eccentric = shaft > sensor.... > > > Rock Auto price had best price of $81.00 that I > found.......Get the > > > connector from the donor car harness with the sensor !! > > > -- > > > Kelly Troyer > > > Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 > > > > > > > Guy on eBay is letting them go for $40.=20 > Tracy, I don't really expect you to know such trivia, but it can't = hurt=20 to ask. The eBay store with the RX-8 crankshaft sensor has a = bunch of=20 other models, so for as little as $5. Is there anything special = about=20 this particular model, or is it just a hall effect sensor? Some = of the=20 other model numbers looked like they had long mounting arms that = would=20 make installation in an RX-7 series a tad easier. --=20 ,|"|"|, | ----=3D=3D=3D<{{(oQo)}}>=3D=3D=3D---- Dyke Delta | o| d |o www.ernest.isa-geek.org | -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru = 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design = info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60DF1.4C259A50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al,
What CAM are we talking about here.
However could a back-up be somehow placed = on a=20 flywheel - just thinking out loud.
George (down under)
 
FWIW, I track Subaru fail rates. The crank sensor fails 1 per 200k = hours=20 estimated.  Which sounds ok, but isn't the best rate. It is trivial = fail=20 rate though, as the ECM has design features which determine sensor has = failed,=20 flags owner, then uses cam sensor. This is a big part of the reason = there are=20 never (virtually) vehicle shut downs. Pretty ingenious failure mode = actually....the engine is difficult to start if one of those sensors = fails, yet=20 runs great. They use irregular pulse intervals for each of the sensors, = making=20 it easy to self diagnose.
 
We've been discussing these design advantages for years on the = newsgroup.=20 It's good to hear it results in design requests. I've heard of at = least three=20 aircraft crank sensor failures. Two were custom wiring failure, = crash=20 resulted. One was actual sensor. All of these had aftermarket ECM's = ...so=20 engine stopped. I look forward to when the aftermarket ecm's take = advantage of=20 these safety techniques.
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV = powered by=20 stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from = Portland,=20 Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel = design=20 info:
htt= p://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
 
 
 
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:15:57 -0500 "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com> writes:
Not a stupid question at all.  Nothing special about the=20 sensor but note that it is a variable reluctance sensor, = not Hall=20 effect.  Most any VR type will work but some are more reliable = than=20 others.  The Subaru does not have a good track record based on = the=20 number of Soob flyers who have had failures and asked me to make = dual pickup=20 versions for the EJ-2x & EG-33 engines.  I have not = heard of a=20 Mazda sensor failing but that is of course no guarantee that it = can't=20 happen. 
 
Do be sure to check the polarity of any VR sensor used.  = The=20 output should swing positive as the tooth moves toward it and = negative as it=20 moves away.
 
Spent yesterday configuring my oil system on the RV-8.  I = should=20 have heeded Rusty's warning on those "Easy push-on oil line=20 fittings"  The Summit description says "no more busted knuckles = trying=20 to assemble oil lines".  Ha!  I'm an FAA "standard 170=20 lb pilot" but that is not enough force to put on those blasted=20 fittings.  Anyone know a trick to make them easier to put = on? =20
 
Tracy (finally getting my XM weather activated)
----- Original Message ----- =
From: Ernest Christley
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, December = 29, 2005=20 9:39 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Eccentric=20 Shaft Position Sensor

Kelly Troyer=20 wrote:

>
>     > >=20 Ken,
>     > > Hit the=20 junkyards........1999-2002 Mazda Protege=20 "Camshaft
>    =20 Sensor"
>     > > is the same part = number=20 as the 1993-95 RX7 eccentric shaft
>     = sensor....
>     > > Rock Auto = price had=20 best price of $81.00 that I
>    =20 found.......Get the
>     > > = connector=20 from the donor car harness with the sensor=20 !!
>     > >=20 --
>     > > Kelly=20 Troyer
>     > > Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2
>     >=20 >
>     = >
>    =20 > Guy on eBay is letting them go for $40.
>
Tracy, I = don't=20 really expect you to know such trivia, but it can't hurt
to = ask. =20 The eBay  store with the RX-8 crankshaft sensor has a bunch = of=20
other models, so for as little as $5.  Is there anything = special=20 about
this particular model, or is it just a hall effect = sensor? =20 Some of the
other model numbers looked like they had long = mounting=20 arms that would
make installation in an RX-7 series a tad=20 easier.

-- =
        =20 = ,|"|"|,           =             &= nbsp;           =20 = |
----=3D=3D=3D<{{(oQo)}}>=3D=3D=3D----    &= nbsp;  =20 Dyke Delta        =20 |
        o|  d =20 |o          www.ernest.isa-geek.org = =20 |

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve=20 and UnSub:   http://mail.lanca= ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
 

-al wick
Artificial = intelligence in=20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru = install, Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 = info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
= ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C60DF1.4C259A50--