Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #2885
From: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: turbo wastegate requirements
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:08:40 -0400
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Rusty,
Of course you're right about residual boost with wastegate open.  My 30" take off would have to be done at partial throttle.  Am I correct in my inference that gradually closing the wastegate as I go higher and higher will minimize intercooler requirements and wear and tear on the turbo?
Additionally, I have put a 36" or so limit on MAP to safeguard the engine.  Does the turbo also have a boost limit?  If the turbo has, say, a 10" boost limit, then as ambient pressure dropped off, I would reach my turbo normalize limit at about 20" ambient or around 10k'.  What would the boost limits be on the Mazda stock turbo?  Are they a factor in normalizing to 15k' - 18k'?

I can't see my way clear to use any turbo other than Mazda stock since that is the only one that has demonstrated ability to hold up under the hideous exhaust pulses of an unrestricted rotary.
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
 
 

Russell Duffy wrote:

 I am totally new to all of this, but have to learn.  I don't want much boost (maybe 35" or so MAP) for takeoff, but want to turbo normalize to around 15k'.  I know detonation is a problem with high boost and I will have limited intercooler resources.  With that in mind, how does this sound ..... Sounds like we're after the same thing.  BTW, I have no intercooler at all, which is another reason that I'm afraid to run too much boost for too long at Summer sea level temps in Florida.   I can definitely tell the difference in mixture between the A and B controllers on the EC-2.  The A controller uses the temp sensor, and the B controller does not.  The temp must be elevated quite a bit, but until I get the EM-2 to read it, I won't know how much. I would have a manual internal waste gate.  The waste gate would be normally open (dumping all exhaust past the turbo).  On takeoff, I would run WOT (say 29"), no boost.  I could close the waste gate a little and get 33" for example for a hot day or short field.  As I climb out at WOT, I gradually close the waste gate to maintain 30" MAP.  Since I'm running essentially NA at low altitude (where the atmosphere is warmer) I don't need much in the way of an intercooler.  As I climb and progressively close the waste gate to maintain 30", I need more intercooling, but this need is reduced by the cooler atmospheric temps.  At altitude, say 15k' - 17k', 30" has me going like a bat out of hell, and the cooler air going into the system requires less intercooling.

The only problem I see with this plan is your assumption that opening the wastegate will eliminate all the boost.  In reality, stock wastegates aren't able to do this for us.   If you look at how an internal wastegate works, you'll see that it isn't a valve that diverts exhaust from the turbine to the open exhaust pipe.  It's really just a door that opens to give the exhaust an easier path to the tailpipe.  This doesn't stop some of the exhaust from turning the turbine and creating some boost. 

In a car, where you have catalytic converters, mufflers, and restrictive air filters, there's enough restriction in the system to limit the amount of air that can move through the engine.  In the case of a stock engine with these restrictions, the stock wastegate is as effective as it needs to be.  When you remove these restrictions, even in the car, boost can't be completely controlled by the wastegate anymore.  Some wastegates are more effective than others.  In RX-7's for example, the series 5, 89-91 turbo wastegate is quite a bit bigger than the one on the series 4, 87-88 turbo.   My series 5 wastegate has been wide open, and the turbo still wants to make more than 3 psi of boost.  Until I set the pop-off valve for a higher number, and go to a safe altitude to test it, I won't know how much it will really make.  Ideally, I'd like to be able to open up the flow of the wastegate until I could only produce 3 psi of boost with the wastegate open.  At that point, I would only have to insure than the wastegate is open at low altitudes, then I couldn't overboost the engine.  I can't wait to get my temps in order, so I can see what the turbo will really do. 

Cheers,Rusty


 
 
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