Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #24311
From: Russell Duffy <13brv3@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: PP debate was Re: Single PP HP?
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:25:42 -0500
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Message
NO, it does not. Every piston engine has overlap, with far worse consequences as the valves are very close together. 
 
For the record, I speak mostly of 13B engines, not the Renesis.  The 13B has always had overlap, a street port has more, bridge port more still.  This is no different than increasing the overlap with cam profiles on those funny up and down engines.  Typically, the PP is on par, or above the Bridge port when it comes to size and overlap, because it's the only possible way to get more size and overlap than a bridge port has.  To my understanding, that's the only reason a PP is worth having, to get what you can't with a side port.   
 
Now you can make a custom PP, and reduce the size and overlap, which knocks it right down the scale.  Once you do that, it won't be making any more power than a side port can make at our rpm's.  I just don't think Powersports is doing anything a well built 13B side port engine couldn't do just as well.     
 
The reason the renesis makes good power is the size of the side ports. Look at the complexity of the manifold on the RX-8.  
 
I totally agree, but the complex manifold it there to make the engine behave in a car.  They have to make the engine capable of continuing to run when someone floors the gas, in 5th gear, at 20 mph.  This has nothing to do with side ports vs PP.   
 
My personal guess is that if Tracy applied his knowledge of the induction system and EFI to a PP engine He would blow away the renesis. This might not be a result he could sell to all of his customers though.  
 
I don't understand that last sentence.  You're saying he could make a superior engine, but it's not what his customers would want?  I must not be a typical customer :-)   I figure you mean that he could make more power, but with limitations that some customers wouldn't be willing to accept, which has been my point all along. 
 
 Run your renesis Rusty, I'm sure you will be happy with it.  
 
I don't have a Renesis, and don't have any immediate plans to have one.  I'm not sure they provide a tremendous power advantage over a good 13B, unless you're willing to turn them up to 8500 rpm, but they do have other advantages like cooler, quieter exhaust. 
 
 I am just saying that I believe your desire for a high power single rotor could be met easier with the PP.  
 
I haven't been pursuing a high power single rotor.  In fact, anything over 100 HP in the Kolb will require serious restraint (note to Al W- BIG risk factor with me on the throttle <g>), because the plane was only made for 80 HP originally.  Since I just bought a small turbo to use as a muffler, it's going to be tough to avoid producing too much power.
 
BTW, I hope you're enjoying this in the spirit of good clean discussion like I am.  If not, we need to call it off, because I don't really mean to piss anyone off. 
 
Cheers,
Rusty (must have something better to do) 
 
 
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