X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.169] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with ESMTP id 1009049 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:08:54 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.169; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend3.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 42674383 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:08:48 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c57683$adce77f0$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:07:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C57659.C4B350A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C57659.C4B350A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I still would use 1/2" as far as I could towards the pumps, remember you will have low pressure in this part, inviting vapor-lock or at least bubbles. The bigger the lines the less a bubble can block. My $ 00.02 Thomas J. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive Thomas, Should of said I talked myself out of it. If a 260hp Lyc can use 3/8 in then it should be ok for a Renesis not expect to produce more than 220hp at sea level. Also other RV10 builders that have upgraded to an Andair valve are reporting problems routing the 3/8 lines. The 10 has a console so room is limited for making the connections to the Andair. This may still be a problem with tight bends on the low pressure side. I figure the fuel strainer will stop the larger trash...(did I leave a few loose rivets stuck to the proseal?) After researching EFI pumps it seemed to me that most (not all) manufactures where recommending a good filter before the pump to stop damage from smaller debris. Since each pump has it's own filter that should provide redundancy in case a filter clogs. So no filter by-pass needed. I think the key for this setup is the flow rate / pressure drop of the filters on the low pressure side. We know they work well on the high pressure side. They will need to be tested once the plumbing is done. The Aeromotive filter I plan to install on the high pressure side has a advertised drop pressure of .15 psi with a flow rate up to 1000 hp. Bobby ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of rijakits Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive Bobby, excuse my curiousity, what was the reason for "Got talked out of it." (1/2"-lines to the pumps)? On another list (BD-4, high wing speedster!) there was a discussion recently about filters before/after/at all/fuel strainers in the tank pick-up/fueling position on the wing. You might be interested to read up on a specific post about a fuel-strainer at the pick-up, which was virtually not clogable. http://archive.northwest-aero.com/pipermail/bd4/ Do you have/plan any by-passes for filters? Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive Thomas, All fuel lines are 3/8". I initially planned for 1/2" through the Andair using the 20-25 duplex valve. Got talked out of it. The RV10 kits for the 260hp Lyc are using 3/8 lines. The 20-25 value supports 1/2 NPT / AN8 connections for the suction side. 3/8 for the return. The 20-20 valve is 3/8 both directions with AN6. Each pump has it's on filter not each tank. Some of the short sections of fuel line between the filters and pumps may change to fittings depending on room and area required for servicing the filters and pumps. I am also not ruling out some flex hoses on the low pressure side. Need to get my Andair. I ordered it three months ago. Every week they tell me it is ready to ship :( still not joy! Fuel Rail parts and injectors?????? Still waiting to see if Bruce and Tracy's are going to offer a Renesis intake.. :) Bobby ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of rijakits Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive Bobby, IIUIR, you are pluming: 1) Each tank to the Andair 2) From the Andair to the pumps 3)...rest of the plan If so, Why not use 1/2" lines Until the pumps? Do you use any kind of by-pass for the filters? Thomas J. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] RV10 Fuel System.. Expensive This is hopefully my final design for my fuel system. 1. Use Andair duplex valve and mount to floor with extension. The 10 has a console. 2. Use (expensive) Y blocks to reduce bends and provide sensor ports. 3. Filter before and after pumps. 4. Auto fail over circuit to switch on second pump at 28 psi. 5. High pressure bleeder. 6. 3/8 lines. 7. All cabin fuel plumbing mounted to plate on floor. 8. Firewall bulkheads on cool side of engine. The pressure drop and flow rate of the AC Delco Filters is unknown...AC Delco will not provide specifications. Will need to measure. This is the same basic configuration the EGG's are running so it should provide a larger group of planes with this design in the air sooner. Flame away!! Bobby Hughes -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C57659.C4B350A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I still would use 1/2" as far as I could towards = the=20 pumps, remember you will have low pressure in this part, inviting = vapor-lock or=20 at least bubbles. The bigger the lines the less a bubble can = block.
 
My $ 00.02
 
Thomas J.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby J. = Hughes=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 = 9:29=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 = Fuel=20 System.. Expensive

Thomas,
 
Should of said I talked myself out of it. If = a 260hp Lyc=20 can use 3/8 in then it should be ok for a Renesis not expect to = produce more=20 than 220hp at sea level. Also other RV10 builders that have upgraded = to an=20 Andair valve are reporting problems routing the 3/8 lines. The 10 has = a=20 console so room is limited for making the connections to the Andair. = This may=20 still be a problem with tight bends on the low pressure side.=20
 
I figure the fuel strainer will stop the = larger=20 trash...(did I leave a few loose rivets stuck to the proseal?) After=20 researching EFI pumps it seemed to me that most (not all) manufactures = where=20 recommending a good filter before the pump to stop damage from smaller = debris.=20 Since each pump has it's own filter that should provide redundancy in = case a=20 filter clogs. So no filter by-pass needed.
 
I think the key for this setup is the flow = rate /=20 pressure drop of the filters on the low pressure side. We know they = work well=20 on the high pressure side. They will need to be tested once the = plumbing is=20 done. The Aeromotive filter I plan to install on the high pressure = side has a=20 advertised drop pressure of .15 psi with a flow rate up to 1000 hp.=20
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 rijakits
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:04 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 Fuel = System.. Expensive

Bobby,
 
excuse my curiousity, what was the reason for = "Got talked out of it." (1/2"-lines to the pumps)?
 
On another list (BD-4, high wing speedster!) = there was a=20 discussion recently about filters before/after/at all/fuel strainers = in the=20 tank pick-up/fueling position on the wing.
You might be interested to read up on a = specific post=20 about a fuel-strainer at the pick-up, which was virtually not=20 clogable.
http://archive.= northwest-aero.com/pipermail/bd4/
 
Do you have/plan any by-passes for = filters?
 
Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby = J. Hughes=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 = 8:52=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 = Fuel=20 System.. Expensive

Thomas,
 
All fuel lines are 3/8". I initially = planned for 1/2"=20 through the Andair using the 20-25 duplex valve. Got talked out of = it. The=20 RV10 kits for the 260hp Lyc are using 3/8 lines. The 20-25 value = supports=20 1/2 NPT / AN8 connections for the suction side. 3/8 for the return. = The=20 20-20 valve is 3/8 both directions with AN6.
 
Each pump has=20 it's on filter not each tank. Some of the short sections of fuel = line=20 between the filters and pumps may change to fittings depending on = room and=20 area required for servicing the filters and pumps. I am also not = ruling out=20 some flex hoses on the low pressure side. Need to get my Andair. I = ordered=20 it three months ago. Every week they tell me it is ready to ship = :( =20 still not joy!
 
Fuel Rail parts and injectors?????? Still = waiting to=20 see if Bruce and Tracy's are going to offer a Renesis intake.. :)=20
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 rijakits
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:31 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV10 = Fuel=20 System.. Expensive

Bobby,
IIUIR, you are pluming:
 
1) Each tank to the Andair
2) From the Andair to the pumps
3)...rest of the plan
 
If so, Why not use 1/2" lines Until the=20 pumps?
Do you use any kind of by-pass for the=20 filters?
 
Thomas J.
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Bobby = J.=20 Hughes
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 = 7:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RV10 = Fuel=20 System.. Expensive

This is=20 hopefully my final design for my fuel system.
 
1. Use Andair=20 duplex valve and mount to floor with extension. The 10 has a = console.=20
2. Use=20 (expensive) Y blocks to reduce bends and provide sensor ports.=20
3. Filter=20 before and after pumps.
4. Auto fail=20 over circuit to switch on second pump at 28 = psi.
5. High=20 pressure bleeder.
6. 3/8 lines.=20
7. All cabin=20 fuel plumbing mounted to plate on floor.
8. Firewall=20 bulkheads on cool side of engine.
 
The pressure=20 drop and flow rate of the AC Delco Filters is unknown...AC Delco = will not=20 provide specifications. Will need to measure.
 
This is the=20 same basic configuration the EGG's are running so it should = provide a=20 larger group of planes with this design in the air sooner.=20
 
 
Flame=20 away!!
 
Bobby=20 Hughes
 
 

>>  Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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