X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c5) with ESMTP id 933137 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 May 2005 00:36:44 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.65; envelope-from=sqpilot@bellsouth.net Received: from paul52u7f5qyav ([209.214.45.48]) by imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.11 201-253-122-130-111-20040605) with SMTP id <20050505043555.UESU2434.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@paul52u7f5qyav> for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 00:35:55 -0400 Message-ID: <01ab01c5512b$ea7755a0$302dd6d1@paul52u7f5qyav> From: "Paul" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's new rotor housings Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 23:35:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A8_01C55102.005F57C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A8_01C55102.005F57C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Jim....yes, that is correct....I turned on the other pump, but since = the prop had already stopped and there was no input to the ECU that = spark existed, the fuel pump relay would not turn the pump on anyway. I = did not hit the starter button, as I was in a perfect position to turn = base, and just decided to go with rule number one....Fly the airplane. = No need to trouble shoot when you are perfectly set up for a landing. = That's what the hangar is for. If I were at altitude, I would have = tried to restart and replace the fuse, but since I was in the pattern, = not an option. Paul Conner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Sower=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:50 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's new rotor housings Chris, I don't believe anyone's arguing that as far as it goes. As I read = it, the issue turns on what size fuse / breaker you are using. If the = circuit is protected close to the rated draw of the component, then = transients could trip it and it could be successfully reset. If the = fuse / breaker is sized way above the rated draw of the component, = transients are not going to happen and the fuse/breaker will blow/trip = just in time to prevent the wire from melting down - long after the = component is fried. =20 The basic issue (for me) is that in this scenario, breakers are heavy, = expensive, complex (like it or not, they do constitute a failure mode), = take up panel space but serve no real purpose. I'm not against breakers = for avionics and the like where you want to protect a delicate, = expensive device from damage from transients, but if Paul had a heavier = fuse (or breaker), his pump never would have quit in the first place. = One could argue that if he'd had a CB, he might not have had time to = trouble shoot his situation and reset it. As it was, he was real busy = staying out of the trees, and IIRC he did turn on the other pump = (probably took less time than trouble shooting and reseting a breaker) = but it was already too late for that to keep the engine running. Paul - = is that right? On the one hand, I don't want a flight critical component putting me = in the trees on account of some hokey transient, and on the other hand, = transients can't destroy a component as robust as a fuel pump. That's = my basic reasoning. It's a philosophical position ... I'll change it for a good enough = reason ... Jim S. Christopher Barber wrote:=20 If'n I am not mistaken they are saying a cb MAY reset (due to an = intermittent problem or other anomaly).....a fuse WILL NOT. If I have a = choice between MAY and will NOT, I think I will chose MAY......even if = the cb reset may point to another problem that must be tended to after a = safe landing. I do not want to stand on principles of what SHOULD be = happening if there is an option to get back to Teran soil safely. But what do I know, I am not even staying at a Holiday Inn Express. All the best, Chris \-----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's new rotor housings Group I hate to stir the pot again, but using fuses instead of = circuit brakers is asking for dead stick landings. Georges B. The fuse blew because of a wiring problem; Reset the breaker = and it either won't reset, or it will trip again. How does that help? Al -------Original Message------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: 05/01/05 16:39:07 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's new rotor housings > Climbed like a rocketship and temps never went above 165 = until the engine quit. =20 Congrats on the glider time, Paul! My understanding is that the pumps, at least the ones I'm = using (or at least WAS using when I used to be able to fly this #@#$ing = thing, long ago), are designed to run continuously. I have one Walbro = Inline fuel pump-GSL393 (from Tracy) and one Walbro Inline fuel = pump-GSL394 from Lightning Motorsports. Both have metal screw in = connectors which fit AN adapters. They're fused at 20 amps. Regards, John =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html-----------------------= -------------------------------------------------------No virus found in = this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.1 - Release Date: 5/2/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_01A8_01C55102.005F57C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Jim....yes, that is correct....I = turned on the=20 other pump, but since the prop had already stopped and there was no = input to the=20 ECU that spark existed, the fuel pump relay would not turn the pump on = anyway. I=20 did not hit the starter button, as I was in a perfect position to turn = base, and=20 just decided to go with rule number one....Fly the airplane.  No = need to=20 trouble shoot when you are perfectly set up for a landing. That's what = the=20 hangar is for.  If I were at altitude, I would have tried to = restart and=20 replace the fuse, but since I was in the pattern, not an option.  = Paul=20 Conner
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jim=20 Sower
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:50 = AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's = new rotor=20 housings

Chris,
I don't believe anyone's arguing that as far = as it=20 goes.  As I read it, the issue turns on what size fuse / breaker = you are=20 using.  If the circuit is protected close to the rated draw of = the=20 component, then transients could trip it and it could be successfully=20 reset.  If the fuse / breaker is sized way above the rated draw = of the=20 component, transients are not going to happen and the fuse/breaker = will=20 blow/trip just in time to prevent the wire from melting down - long = after=20 the component is fried. 

The basic issue (for me) is = that in=20 this scenario, breakers are heavy, expensive, complex (like it or not, = they do=20 constitute a failure mode), take up panel space but serve no real=20 purpose.  I'm not against breakers for avionics and the like = where you=20 want to protect a delicate, expensive device from damage from = transients, but=20 if Paul had a heavier fuse (or breaker), his pump never would have = quit in the=20 first place.  One could argue that if he'd had a CB, he might not = have=20 had time to trouble shoot his situation and reset it.  As it was, = he was=20 real busy staying out of the trees, and IIRC he did turn on the other = pump=20 (probably took less time than trouble shooting and reseting a breaker) = but it=20 was already too late for that to keep the engine running.  Paul - = is that=20 right?

On the one hand, I don't want a flight critical = component=20 putting me in the trees on account of some hokey transient, and on the = other=20 hand, transients can't destroy a component as robust as a fuel = pump. =20 That's my basic reasoning.

It's a philosophical position ... = I'll=20 change it for a good enough reason ... Jim S.


Christopher = Barber=20 wrote:=20
If'n I am not mistaken they are saying a cb MAY reset (due = to an=20 intermittent problem or other anomaly).....a fuse WILL NOT.  If = I have=20 a choice between MAY and will NOT, I think I will chose = MAY......even if the=20 cb reset may point to another problem that must be tended to after a = safe=20 landing.  I do not want to stand on principles of what SHOULD=20 be happening if there is an option to get back to Teran soil=20 safely.
 
But what do I know, I am not even staying at a Holiday Inn=20 Express.
 
All the best,
 
Chris
 
\-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]On=20 Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 1:17=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Ed's new rotor housings

 Group

I hate to stir = the pot=20 again, but using fuses instead of circuit brakers is asking = for dead=20 stick landings.

Georges=20 B.

 

The fuse=20 blew because of a wiring problem; Reset the breaker and it = either=20 won=92t reset, or it will trip again.  How does that=20 help?

 

Al

-------Original=20 Message-------

 

Date:=20 05/01/05=20 16:39:07

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's new rotor=20 housings

 

 > Climbed like a = rocketship and temps never went above 165 until the engine=20 quit.  

Congrats on=20 the glider time, Paul!

 

My=20 understanding is that the pumps, at least the ones I'm using = (or at=20 least WAS using when I used to be able to fly this #@#$ing thing, long ago), are = designed to=20 run continuously. I have one Walbro Inline fuel pump-GSL393 = (from=20 Tracy) = and one=20 Walbro Inline fuel pump-GSL394 from Lightning = Motorsports. Both=20 have metal screw in connectors which fit AN adapters. = They're fused=20 at 20 amps.

Regards,

John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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