Return-Path: Received: from mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.195] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP-TLS id 881639 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 01:47:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.195; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-29-46.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.29.46]) by mail14.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j3I5l58S024120 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:47:07 +1000 Message-ID: <005301c543da$94abb660$2e1decdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:50:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01C5442E.65CFAAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C5442E.65CFAAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Georges, I have actually seen the rebuilds done and only what needs to be = replaced is replaced - IT IS NOT REBUILT TO ORIGINAL SPECS. I've seen housings with chrome missing go back into a rebuild, a bit = of slop in the apex seal ( no big deal) Oil control rings go back in, = apex seal go back in - everything goes back in unless it's badly = damaged. Tolerances aren't checked unless by eye it's seen to be real = bad. So when you buy a recently rebuilt motor, your not getting a hell of a = lot, so don't pay too much for them and you won't get burnt. If you think that's a bit rough, just look at the prices of new parts = and what their rebuilding the motors for. Their doing rebuilds for = $1,200 - the young blokes can't afford too much. However $1,200 doesn't = go too far buying new parts. I figure if your paying more than $250 for an old motor, your paying = too much. You have to wonder why their selling them anyway! George ( down under) Hi! Kelly I must of mist Lynn's VST system, I don't understand what those = measurements are. I opened another 91 13b NA today & to my dismay it = was toast (supposably a Mazda rebuilt in '99) I measured at 90deg. to the apex slots with a digital vernier = caliper the reading I got on this one were from 2.26 to 2.43 mm the new = 2mm seal is 1.91 to 1.94 wide, the max allowable clearance is 0.1mm = therefore in this case the widest width should be 1.04mm so this slot = has 0.39 mm excess wear at the slot opening. Has anyone actually = measured a new rotor? I guess I will buy 2 new rotors now Georges=20 -------Original Message------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: 04/17/05 15:33:47 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear Georges, Have you tried Lynn's VST (Vertical Seal Test) for apex slot = wear and if so=20 what measurement did you get ? Lynn suggests that 3/16 inch = (.1875 inch) or 4.7625 mm as the outer limit........Of course after all the = posts on this subject everyone may have their own personal limit !! -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort = (Georges Boucher)" : --------------=20 Hi! Leon You have a point regarding air filter use on water, when = Mt St Helen (Washington state) erupted the first time I had a shop in = Vancouver BC Canada (about 300miles away) even at that distance, one of = the fleets of vehicle that we serviced had to have the air filters = replaced every second day( even a week the eruption). I made the crack about no need for an air filter for a = float plane in Canada, but actually much of the time float planes are = started on the lake shores with the engine above the ground instead of = the water. The other thing about air filters on an airplane, an = alternate air source (like a slightly spring loaded flat) should be = supplied ( in a float plane case , water could splash onto the element & = freeze solid at altitude, blocking air to the intake). On the rotor apex = seal subject, I agree with you regarding the amount of wear on the rotor = seal slot & seal has to be a lot more than Ed's to spit out the seals. = I drove my used engine supplier nuts yesterday, measured 6 different = rotors & all were from 2.13 to 2.28 mm, he old me they use these rotors = regularly for a long time & never had a problem. Mine are 2.17 to = 2.26mm, So I guess I'l have to buy new rotors. Georges Boucher =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date: 4/16/2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C5442E.65CFAAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Georges,
I have actually seen the rebuilds done = and only=20 what needs to be replaced is replaced - IT IS NOT REBUILT TO ORIGINAL=20 SPECS.
 
I've seen housings with chrome missing = go back=20 into a rebuild, a bit of slop in the apex seal ( no big deal) Oil = control=20 rings go back in, apex seal go back in  - everything goes = back in=20 unless it's badly damaged. Tolerances aren't checked unless by eye = it's seen=20 to be real bad.
 
So when you buy a recently rebuilt = motor, your=20 not getting a hell of a lot, so don't pay too much for them and you = won't get=20 burnt.
 
If you think that's a bit rough, just = look at=20 the prices of new parts and what their rebuilding the motors for. = Their doing=20 rebuilds for $1,200 - the young blokes can't afford too much.  = However=20 $1,200 doesn't go too far buying new parts.
 
I figure if your paying more than $250 = for an=20 old motor, your paying too much. You have to wonder why their selling = them=20 anyway!
George ( down under)
 
 Hi! Kelly
I must of mist Lynn's VST system, I don't understand what = those=20 measurements are.  I opened another 91 13b NA today & = to my=20 dismay it was toast (supposably a Mazda rebuilt in '99)
I measured at 90deg. to the apex slots with a digital = vernier=20 caliper the reading I got on this one were from 2.26 to 2.43 mm = the new=20 2mm seal is 1.91 to 1.94 wide, the max allowable clearance is = 0.1mm=20 therefore in this case the widest width should be 1.04mm so this = slot=20 has 0.39 mm excess wear at the slot opening. Has anyone=20 actually measured a new rotor? I guess I will buy = 2 new rotors=20 now
Georges 
 
-------Original=20 Message-------
 
From: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Date: = 04/17/05=20 15:33:47
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear
 
Georges,
    Have you tried Lynn's VST (Vertical Seal = Test)=20 for apex slot wear and if so
what measurement did you get ? Lynn suggests that 3/16 inch = (.1875=20 inch)
or 4.7625 mm as the outer limit........Of course after all = the=20 posts on this subject
everyone may have their own personal limit !!
--
Kelly Troyer =
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges = Boucher)"=20 <echolakeresort@telus.net>: --------------

 Hi! Leon
You have a point regarding air filter use on water, = when Mt=20 St Helen (Washington state) erupted the first time I had a = shop in=20 Vancouver BC Canada (about 300miles away) even at that = distance,=20 one of the fleets of vehicle that we serviced had to have = the air=20 filters replaced every second day( even a week the=20 eruption).
 I made the crack about no need for an air = filter for a=20 float plane in Canada, but actually much of the time float = planes=20 are started on the lake shores with the engine above the = ground=20 instead of the water. The other thing about air filters on = an=20 airplane, an alternate air source (like a slightly spring = loaded=20 flat) should be supplied ( in a float plane case , water = could=20 splash onto the element & freeze solid at altitude, = blocking=20 air to the intake). On the rotor apex seal subject, I = agree with=20 you regarding the amount of wear on the rotor seal = slot &=20 seal has to be a lot more than Ed's  to spit out the = seals. I=20 drove my used engine supplier nuts yesterday, = measured 6=20 different  rotors  & all were from 2.13 to = 2.28 mm,=20 he old me they use these rotors regularly for a long time = &=20 never had a problem. Mine are 2.17 to 2.26mm, So I guess = I'l have=20 to buy new rotors.
Georges Boucher
 
 
 
 

 
=
 

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG=20 Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release = Date:=20 4/16/2005

>>  Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C5442E.65CFAAA0--