Return-Path: Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.115] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 881623 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 01:34:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.131.115; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from 204.127.135.75 ([204.127.135.75]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20050418053416111000d6jqe>; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 05:34:16 +0000 Received: from [209.247.222.99] by 204.127.135.75; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 05:34:15 +0000 From: keltro@att.net (Kelly Troyer) To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 05:34:15 +0000 Message-Id: <041820050534.26911.426346D70001F0160000691F2160466648019D9B040A05@att.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Feb 14 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Georges, Lynn suggested standing a new apex seal vertically in clean seal groove and measureing the side to side movement at the top of the seal as a quick test for groove wear........Lynn indicated that a new rotor would have very little movement and that you could consider about 3/16 inch (.1875 thousandTH), about 4.7625 mm the outer limit (worn out)........FWIW -- Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 -------------- Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" : -------------- Hi! Kelly I must of mist Lynn's VST system, I don't understand what those measurements are. I opened another 91 13b NA today & to my dismay it was toast (supposably a Mazda rebuilt in '99) I measured at 90deg. to the apex slots with a digital vernier caliper the reading I got on this one were from 2.26 to 2.43 mm the new 2mm seal is 1.91 to 1.94 wide, the max allowable clearance is 0.1mm therefore in this case the widest width should be 1.04mm so this slot has 0.39 mm excess wear at the slot opening. Has anyone actually measured a new rotor? I guess I will buy 2 new rotors now Georges -------Original Message------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: 04/17/05 15:33:47 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear Georges, Have you tried Lynn's VST (Vertical Seal Test) for apex slot wear and if so what measurement did you get ? Lynn suggests that 3/16 inch (.1875 inch) or 4.7625 mm as the outer limit........Of course after all the posts on this subject everyone may have their own personal limit !! -- Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2 -------------- Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" : -------------- Hi! Leon You have a point regarding air filter use on water, when Mt St Helen (Washington state) erupted the first time I had a shop in Vancouver BC Canada (about 300miles away) even at that distance, one of the fleets of vehicle that we serviced had to have the air filters replaced every second day( even a week the eruption). I made the crack about no need for an air filter for a float plane in Canada, but actually much of the time float planes are started on the lake shores with the engine above the ground instead of the water. The other thing about air filters on an airplane, an alternate air source (like a slightly spring loaded flat) should be supplied ( in a float plane case , water could splash onto the element & freeze solid at altitude, blocking air to the intake). On the rotor apex seal subject, I agree with you regarding the amount of wear on the rotor seal slot & seal has to be a lot more than Ed's to spit out the seals. I drove my used engine supplier nuts yesterday, measured 6 different rotors & all were from 2.13 to 2.28 mm, he old me they use these rotors regularly for a long time & never had a problem. Mine are 2.17 to 2.26mm, So I guess I'l have to buy new rotors. Georges Boucher --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_1 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Georges,
    Lynn suggested standing a new apex seal vertically in clean seal groove and
measureing the side to side movement at the top of the seal as a quick test for
groove wear........Lynn indicated that a new rotor would have very little movement
and that you could consider about 3/16 inch (.1875 thousandTH), about 4.7625 mm
the outer limit (worn out)........FWIW
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




-------------- Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" <echolakeresort@telus.net>: --------------

 Hi! Kelly
I must of mist Lynn's VST system, I don't understand what those measurements are.  I opened another 91 13b NA today & to my dismay it was toast (supposably a Mazda rebuilt in '99)
I measured at 90deg. to the apex slots with a digital vernier caliper the reading I got on this one were from 2.26 to 2.43 mm the new 2mm seal is 1.91 to 1.94 wide, the max allowable clearance is 0.1mm therefore in this case the widest width should be 1.04mm so this slot has 0.39 mm excess wear at the slot opening. Has anyone actually measured a new rotor? I guess I will buy 2 new rotors now
Georges 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 04/17/05 15:33:47
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear
 
Georges,
    Have you tried Lynn's VST (Vertical Seal Test) for apex slot wear and if so
what measurement did you get ? Lynn suggests that 3/16 inch (.1875 inch)
or 4.7625 mm as the outer limit........Of course after all the posts on this subject
everyone may have their own personal limit !!
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




-------------- Original message from "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" <echolakeresort@telus.net>: --------------

 Hi! Leon
You have a point regarding air filter use on water, when Mt St Helen (Washington state) erupted the first time I had a shop in Vancouver BC Canada (about 300miles away) even at that distance, one of the fleets of vehicle that we serviced had to have the air filters replaced every second day( even a week the eruption).
 I made the crack about no need for an air filter for a float plane in Canada, but actually much of the time float planes are started on the lake shores with the engine above the ground instead of the water. The other thing about air filters on an airplane, an alternate air source (like a slightly spring loaded flat) should be supplied ( in a float plane case , water could splash onto the element & freeze solid at altitude, blocking air to the intake). On the rotor apex seal subject, I agree with you regarding the amount of wear on the rotor seal slot & seal has to be a lot more than Ed's  to spit out the seals. I drove my used engine supplier nuts yesterday, measured 6 different  rotors  & all were from 2.13 to 2.28 mm, he old me they use these rotors regularly for a long time & never had a problem. Mine are 2.17 to 2.26mm, So I guess I'l have to buy new rotors.
Georges Boucher
 
 
 
 

 
 
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "Echo Lake Fishing Resort (Georges Boucher)" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex Seal Groove Wear Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 02:59:02 +0000 Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_2" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_2 Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.15 - Release Date: 4/16/2005 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_2-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26911_1113802455_0--